"Changing Tank Damage Calculation"

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

Ashelia hit on this - we need to not just look at the statement in a bubble, but the context clues surrounding the statement. The devs were discussing this change because of the tank pentamelds, which they want to get away from, as well as the fact that fending accessories are less than desireable.

I have seen a few ideas kicked around in the forums on what 3.2 may. Personally, I think SE will remove strength entirely from tank damage calculations. If they leave str as part of the tank setup, I would expect that there will be a point where tanks still roll on full str accessories.

If they go VIT - I have previously voiced concerns about now and future HP bloat in tanks, forcing much higher damage output from bosses, potentially causing issues with damage dealt to other classes during aoe phases. (though this is likely not that big of a deal). Plus it would be kind of odd for tank gear to list stats as VIT, then secondaries, when all the other classes list Main stat - VIT, and then secondaries. I also recognize this is the simplest solution to implement, and I do fear laziness out of SE based upon the regurgitation of old content for the present relic weapons.

I haven’t seen anyone mention parry as the damage modifier. PLEASE NO.

Another solution I have seen kicked around on the forums is the creation of a damage stat that is exclusive to tanks. BRD/MCH/NIN have dexterity, healers have mind, casters have intelligence and physical melee have strength. Why not give tanks their own stat specifically for damage? Moving away from strength gives SE better future opportunities to add STR based dps classes (5 classes role on str now, do we really want 6+ rolling on one set of gear?). Fending accessories still become relevant, but in this version, with less hp bloat. (Hoping to all that is good and holy that SE realizes that tank accessories should have our damage stat on them).
****** I realize this idea would take much more work from the devs to implement. I also realize this would lessen the “options” tanks have for right sided gear. For those who would argue the later statement, remember no other class has this option.

This stat - once called “Vigor” on a previous post, would likely appear where STR once was on tank gear and would likely show up as str/vgr/dex on low level disciple of war gear.

[Einheri]

Changing str to something new doesn't solve anything. It just makes gear more restrictive. Instead of stacking str right side you would just stack will or vigor or whatever you call it.

[whiskeybravo]

Changing str to something new doesn't solve anything. It just makes gear more restrictive. Instead of stacking str right side you would just stack will or vigor or whatever you call it.

It does. It solves the problem of tanks rolling on slaying accessories.

I don't think they'd go that route, but honestly it makes more sense then what the other guy said about war=str, drk=int, pld=pie. So all the low level/shared gear would have str, vit, int, and pie? It just doesn't make sense really. But who knows.

I've said this before sorta and I still think it's true, you have to determine whether SE thinks current tank damage meta is OK, or acceptable/intended. We don't know this, really, so it's hard to say the changes are gonna be this and that with any sort of certainty. I for one think that tank damage is higher than they anticipated/intended, and their dps numbers are going to be adjusted downward. This is just my thought. However, we already have established certain expectations and strategies for content, so it would be rough to say "Sorry you guys have been doing 1000+ dps for the last 6 months, it's time to go back to 500 dps tanks". I'm sure a lot of people would be pretty upset with that. So they may just adjust it so that current damage is upheld, but moving forward it will not increase that much if at all from it's current point.

[Kosmos992k]

This stat - once called “Vigor” on a previous post, would likely appear where STR once was on tank gear and would likely show up as str/vgr/dex on low level disciple of war gear.

Doesn't Determination presently fulfill almost exactly this role? In which case perhaps DET could become a larger factor for Tanks. Especially if it's role in our damage and enmity calculations was enhanced. Boosting DET would help increase the value of incoming heals as well.

Determination exists, and is already in all the calculations so it wouldn't require a huge reworking to implement.

For that matter, vigor could be considered a combination of your strength and vitality, in which case, perhaps our base DET score can be based off VIT/STR (more heavily VIT), and then add more DET to gear instead of constantly stacking VIT/Parry.

I’d just wonder how many tanks would stop tanking if SE nerfed tank damage. But I don’t discredit this as a possibility.

Any that do, are not really tanks, they are just hard to kill DPS....

[Talith]

This stat - once called “Vigor” on a previous post, would likely appear where STR once was on tank gear and would likely show up as str/vgr/dex on low level disciple of war gear.

I have read many ideas but not this one and its just brilliant.

"Vigor" would allow:

To set the Tank desired HP pool according to ilvl on the left side gear that has Vit
To focus the right side on a fending set that has Vigor and thus regulates the damage output desired (along with enmity)
To set apart tank gear which is specially important in lower levels where I still see some tanks using Disciples of War gear
If you need to tune Tank damage just adjust Vigor and you can leave Str alone and never affect DPS.

Still leaves room for gearing:
Vigor vs Vit on attribute points will still be a thing
On the new raid open melded spots melding Vit vs a DPS secondary will be an interesting thing for tanks to do, and wont require a second set of jewlery.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

@einheri - every other class has that gear restriction - why should tanks be any different?. but yes tanks would still stack the new stat.

The point is, SE could (1) give right side gear both stats - build would be similar to present penta melds - or (2) SE gives us only VIT on rt side gear, but increases the value of the damage stat (either a larger number on left side gear ex. 109 -> 129 or larger multiplier in damage calcs) or (3) tanks finally get their damage stat on their right side gear like every other class in the game and vit values are/can be adjusted on left side gear.

I feel this route gives SE more options now and flexibility for future growth.
***I feel that SE has probably already thought of this and cited "ps3/server limitations" and will go the easier route of VIT base for damage [end sarcasm font]
I feel that those who have issue with the gear options being less need to realize that if SE goes with VIT damage, we will all be stacking VIT and thus still only have one option
****EDIT*** that wasn't directed at anyone in specific, I have seen the "But I wanna customize" argument made several times throughout the tank forums.
I feel that the addition of a tank stat c/would allow SE to have a full vit accessory and make a full *tank stat* accessory. Hey a tank can dream right?

I'm not saying this is a perfect solution, but I do think this is a more creative alternative than simply flipping the switch to VIT. I would love to see some creativity from the devs for all of 3.2.

…….I've said this before sorta and I still think it's true, you have to determine whether SE thinks current tank damage meta is OK, or acceptable/intended. We don't know this, really, so it's hard to say the changes are gonna be this and that with any sort of certainty. I for one think that tank damage is higher than they anticipated/intended, and their dps numbers are going to be adjusted downward. This is just my thought. However, we already have established certain expectations and strategies for content, so it would be rough to say "Sorry you guys have been doing 1000+ dps for the last 6 months, it's time to go back to 500 dps tanks". I'm sure a lot of people would be pretty upset with that. So they may just adjust it so that current damage is upheld, but moving forward it will not increase that much if at all from it's current point.

I’d just wonder how many tanks would stop tanking if SE nerfed tank damage. But I don’t discredit this as a possibility.

[Einheri]

@alex, all you are offering is more complication and uneeded work for the dev team.they could just as easily add str to the fending access and achieve what you are looking for.

[Claymore65]

@alex, all you are offering is more complication and uneeded work for the dev team.they could just as easily add str to the fending access and achieve what you are looking for.

Or they could do 50% Vit and 50% Strength. That way Fending is purely better, but all the Strength currently on gear still gets used.

[Einheri]

Yeah they could split it but unless something in the game play mechanics change you would still go full str for more dps. Or you could do as is currently done and mix match str and vit access.

They wouldn't have to change the stats to nerf or buff damage simple modifier or potency changes is all that is needed. If you wanted a tank stat they need to add a mechanic that requires it. Take secret world for example you needed to reach a certain block threshold to not be penetrated wow did it with crushing blows. This way a tank would be required to cap a stat specific to them. Changing there attack power modifier from str to something else is just flavor text.

[whiskeybravo]

I’d just wonder how many tanks would stop tanking if SE nerfed tank damage. But I don’t discredit this as a possibility.

That's a good question, but I think the only ones that would stop tanking are converts that switched from dps to tank. Most reasonable people that I've talked to, and most tanks on here I think, would be OK with a damage reduction, as damage is not why they originally started tanking to begin with. I for one would probably actually tank more often, I don't necessarily disagree with the str tanking meta, but for me that's not why I tank. When savage first came out and it became expected for tanks to get melded/slaying accessories, I just said eff that and went dragoon, an actual damage dealing class lol. Now, I'm working on relic for warrior, not dragoon, I still tank and like to tank, but probably won't even be attempting to tank savage until it's the next raid. It's not "why I tank" xD