Summoners Overpowered in PvP

[Tarta]

Hey don't wanna read 7 pages of "debate" but did anyone compare BLM vs. SMN yet? (the 2 casters).

In defense, SMN beats BLM as their defense is stupid powerful offense. I mean, yeah you can soak a big hit or 2 as BLM, but that doesn't stop anyone from continuously killing you. As a SMN, you take the big hit or 2, still at half life and opponent at 1/4 health. In PvP that means your opponent will try and back off to his healers (likely pushing SMN to hit the dude further, ergo killing him, and being left with half health).
I'm biaised as I play BLM, but I admit to focusing the other BLM as they are so killable: as long as I started casting faster, opponent BLM gets interrupted by my spells. He's stuck in my rhythm and I win. It's a fight of who starts shooting first or who hides and runs away.
If I focus a SMN and they focus me back, I gotta back down.
In fact I gotta back down from everything really. I gotta back down from WAR, PLD, DRK, DRG, BRD, NIN, MNK, MCH, SMN, SCH (they also do me in eventually, and I don't got the offense to kill em), WHM/AST (unless I'm tag teaming with others, otherwise, wasting my time), and of course also gotta back down from other BLM if they started shooting first.

We can resort to Scathe, to break other BLM rhythm, but...it really becomes a silly willy fight just scathing back and forth until another player comes in and kill either of us.

Don't get me started with pets from SMN/MCH; interrupt city. I can't do anything if a pet is focused on me. I have to run away out of range and hope SMN is noob and pet disappears, to go back to fighting, otherwise I can't do nothing but scathe.

So yes; SMN is really really powerful in PvP right now.
We BLM had our powerful time at 50 frontlines due to middle where we would just focus turret and win, but that's not longer the case with Seal Rock.

[PotatoTree]

Hey don't wanna read 7 pages of "debate" but did anyone compare BLM vs. SMN yet? (the 2 casters).

I think BLM lost their edge when the swiftcast nerf made swift->Flare obsolete. They need to bring that back or else BLM cannot compare to SMN. That being said, a BLM should be able to survive a SMN burst and run away to live another day, but they'll have no hope in actually killing a SMN if both are equally skilled and have all buffs up.

[Stupiduglytaru]

I think BLM lost their edge when the swiftcast nerf made swift->Flare obsolete. They need to bring that back or else BLM cannot compare to SMN. That being said, a BLM should be able to survive a SMN burst and run away to live another day, but they'll have no hope in actually killing a SMN if both are equally skilled and have all buffs up.

Blm can win hands down

2 x insta sleep
Manawall

I recently made the switch from smn to blm, I have always said blm is so much stronger than smn.

When I used to go smn, 12+ kills every game with a high average of 15+, 27/0 was my highest.

After 2 days of blm I've already started to improve, been able to hit a few 15+ games.

Smn is just the ultimate noob/kill stealer which is completely negated by a single heal..

Blm however burst is constant through fire IV firestarter procs and thundercloud procs

In games in which healing has been pretty good my smn friend has struggled to land kills meanwhile I have no problem.

[PotatoTree]

Blm can win hands down...

I'm gonna need to see a BLM and SMN wolves den duel, although wolves den is kinda different with all the obstacles. It would be hard to set up any other full buff 1v1 though, maybe a 8v8v8 secure you can find a corner to duel in. I really can't see how BLM would win against a equally good SMN, even with double sleep manawall. The SMN literally just has to place the pet between himself and the BLM, rouse/spur/knockback+enkindle and you are already ahead and stopped the BLM for one GCD. Plus remember that the SMN has several Energy Drains, which heals back a boatload. Against a SMN 1v1, these heals add up because the longer the SMN is alive, the more the pet gives the SMN free damage.

[TiaHariberux3]

The SMN literally just has to place the pet between himself and the BLM, rouse/spur/knockback+enkindle and you are already ahead and stopped the BLM for one GCD. Plus remember that the SMN has several Energy Drains, which heals back a boatload. Against a SMN 1v1, these heals add up because the longer the SMN is alive, the more the pet gives the SMN free damage.

Energy Drain heals arent noticable in wolves den also it would reduce ur burst damage if u spam more energy drain for the sake of healing. 1vs1 a blm would win against a smn most of the time (if played good ). I dont know if placing a pet between works....their dmg is low after using af stacks so you wont kill anyone in wd in the next minute. Dont forget purify etc aka counter a smn is way easier in wd than in 72 clusterfu. In my opinion mch will be the best ranged dps in wd anyways

[PotatoTree]

Are we talking about lvl 50 wolves den or a hypothetical lvl 60 1v1 btw? Are the walls/obstacles or just flat land like in seize? Does both jobs start with stoneskin+protect or no? Also energy drain is hella good, especially in a 1v1.

I can do a very mean burst as a BLM 1v1 on lvl 60, but if the SMN doesn't die (hp build, energy drain, knockback) then it's still a loss as after the burst they will easily whittle the BLM down.

Edit: forgot that BLM can't even virus a SMN, while the SMN can virus the BLM.

[kisada]

Are we talking about lvl 50 wolves den or a hypothetical lvl 60 1v1 btw? Are the walls/obstacles or just flat land like in seize? Does both jobs start with stoneskin+protect or no? Also energy drain is hella good, especially in a 1v1.

I can do a very mean burst as a BLM 1v1 on lvl 60, but if the SMN doesn't die (hp build, energy drain, knockback) then it's still a loss as after the burst they will easily whittle the BLM down.

Edit: forgot that BLM can't even virus a SMN, while the SMN can virus the BLM.

^has it right

fwiw in slaughter as a blm, smns were among my favorite targets. in seize as smn, blms are among my favorite targets. at 60 a smn has too many distinct advantages and it's not really even close.

[Tarta]

*snip*

Nope. I don't believe you.
Getting 15+ kills with BLM consistently on Seal Rock? Haven't seen this on Aether center.
Firestarter doesn't proc of Fire IV. I don't know what you are talking about. TC procs only happen once in a while, or guaranteed once per Sharpcast cooldown (if you use it for TC).
You sound like a hard troll.

[TiaHariberux3]

Nope. I don't believe you.
Getting 15+ kills with BLM consistently on Seal Rock? Haven't seen this on Aether center.
Firestarter doesn't proc of Fire IV. I don't know what you are talking about. TC procs only happen once in a while, or guaranteed once per Sharpcast cooldown (if you use it for TC).
You sound like a hard troll.

I met a blm in mael on chaos who got 15+ in most matches don't know about aether. Also if people jump on a blm they get killed pretty fast (if the blm isn't alone or at the front of the fight)

[Stupiduglytaru]

Nope. I don't believe you.
Getting 15+ kills with BLM consistently on Seal Rock? Haven't seen this on Aether center.
Firestarter doesn't proc of Fire IV. I don't know what you are talking about. TC procs only happen once in a while, or guaranteed once per Sharpcast cooldown (if you use it for TC).
You sound like a hard troll.

There was merely an error, it was meant to read Blm has Fire IV, Fire Starter/thundercloud procs.

Its possible to hit 15kills with blm consistently, but that's not what I said. I have hit a few 15+ games with it, thundercloud can crit 4k+ fire IV 6k+ firestarter 5-6k+

On chaos Datacenter there is one blm which can do this, the job is just very hard to play to this level.