DF Penalty

[KingOfAbyss]

But, your suggestion goes against that. If you get kicked after 4 wipes, you won't even stick around for the timer. And now it shifts around; a single individual could sabotage the entire party and force them all to eat the penalty with malicious intent.

Outside of that, you won't even get those "we definitely got it this time" moments if you get hard kicked after 4 wipes.

You are right about my suggestion. What I wanted to try here is to make sure everyone that goes in don't use the Leave or Votekick, but tries their best until the end with the random group that the DF provided.

If everyone talks a bit, I'm pretty sure the average group can deal with anything, even if a bit longer.

So then, everyone would get a clear, and there won't be any other issues, except those speedrunners.

And yes, the moments where you have 1 min left, and you clear it, makes this game very enjoyable! So that would be my wish, but then, as you said with vile people that loves to screw others.. its just wishful thinking sadly.

[hagare]

Make it so that if you die 4 times on a trial/dungeon/whatever, to be kicked out automatically AND suffer the 30min penalty, to reflect upon what you could have done to prevent it.

I this happens, I'm only gonna be going in DF as healer :3

[kazeandi]

Like it or hate it, people that just rant without trying to give others a little text, explaining a bit this boss, instead of 'Last try', the community might git gud, which points at the OP as well.

I did explain the mechanics. The tank didn't listen and the DDs were too slow to dodge. How the tank could hope to survive a mechanic he already died to 2 times is hard to grasp, even after he got explanations. He was English speaker, too, so it can't be blamed on language problems (I don't have them actually, I'm living here in Japan and do speak the language).

Even if the DDs died, I could have just kept on rezzing them whenever Swiftcast is up.
However, when the tank dropped again and you're on the run, you can't rez anyone.
After picking up the tank again it doesn't make sense either - might as well try to solo that boss.

No, I don't feel I deserved the penalty.

[CUTS3R]

They didn't vote for the abandon option, that's the problem.

And i don't even understand why.
Its not a raid progression where you spend hours learning the fight, its just a dungeon where everything fight can be 1 shot even on the 1st try.

I mean if a group wipe more than 3 times for whatever reason, why wouldnt they vote abandon ? Because that guy over there is new to the dungeon and want to finish it no matter what ? I don't give a flying F about it.

First wipe is fine, Y'know mistake happens i'll tell you what to fix.
Second wipe is starting to piss me, but ill calmly explain again.
Third wipe, ill warn the group its my last try and explain one last time in a less kindly sometimes borderline manner.
Fourth wipe, GET F*CK OUT ill vote abandon. There is no way im the one paying for people's incompetence by taking the penalty. Even if that means acting like an ass in order to get kicked if the vote fails.

[kazeandi]

I have no idea either. Sometimes there are such teams that don't work out for whatever reason.
If in this particular case the tank had been one of the DDs and died constantly, well, fine with me.
But as a tank you play a key role. Tank and healer are roles that carry a lot of responsibility. It's okay if someone's new, but it's not okay if someone's unwilling to learn, or too stubborn, or stoned/drunk.

Now, why the vote didn't pass, I do not know.

[Souljacker]

It's mostly the tanks or healers that get this attitude because they have practically nothing to lose from bailing on a dungeon if they don't get a penalty to it, due to instant queues. DPS on the otherhand, are waiting for 25+ minutes to get their dungeon queue. If you were to allow them to leave without a penalty after dying a few times, what's stopping those individuals from purposely dying to trash pulls then calling it quits, and leaving the party stranded without a tank/healer.

Nothing, but this is where I think again, people overestimate the actual number of trolls versus the actual number of people who need to get out of terrible groups. You're constructing these elaborate situations that aren't the norm. There's always going to be "that" dungeon that people don't want to do. Aurum Vale is "that" dungeon right now and even HAVING a penalty isn't stopping people from dropping right away. I was filtered into an in-progress one last week and they hadn't even done the first pull. As soon as more people were filtered, they dropped. Eventually the two of us left voted abandon and started over. So your logic falls short when folks already hate a dungeon enough to drop and eat a penalty.

For the troll concern about 'causing x wipes' - that's what vote kick is for. If you've got a healer not healing, you kick them. If you have a tank not tanking, you kick them. Neither eats a penalty in that situation, either, right? So what's the difference with letting someone leave a dungeon after the GROUP wipes x times and kicking them for behaving in a way you don't agree with? That player would have probably left quietly and not trolled the group for a vote kick. In either situation you are still down a player, but that could be solved by taking away the ridiculous option to choose whether we go in-progress or not. No other game has this option because they already HAD all these discussions a decade ago and came to the appropriate conclusion. It doesn't work. It leaves people begging FC to queue in progress. It makes a 'random' queue no longer quite so random.

Anyway, that's a whole different discussion. This change would help the OTHER 90% of people who don't want to wipe after wipe because the rest of the team doesn't gel well or doesn't care. I will never believe that someone should be FORCED to subject themselves to multiple wipes when other people can't get it together just because this community is so bent on making sure every aspect of the game has a punishment.

Remember, this isn't about removing the debuff. It's about making it a little more reasonable. 30 minutes is almost the entirety of the dungeon. With a competent group you'd be finished. With a group of bad players you could barely be at the first boss. Either way, you're already eating a penalty for wasting your time and queue time. Multiple wipes should trigger something in the code that says yep, there's an issue here and this player can leave *if they want to*. If they don't, then the discussion is moot anyway.

I think it would have the opposite effect you are worried about. If players know their tanks and healers aren't being forced to stay in a bad group, they will behave better and learn to freaking play.

[CUTS3R]

Snip

And you have been punished for being the best player in that group cause you left and got the penalty, which is wrong.

As you said they should find something to prevent that to happen again.
The penalty timer should at least decrease by 15 mins every 3 wipes anywhere in the dungeon.

This way twats leaving after the first 2 wipes will still get locked for 30mins whereas players like you and me will only be locked for 15 mins and even no penalty at all if your mind is strong enough to endure the stupidity of witnessing 6 wipes ( granted it happens more often in Ex primals / coil etc than dungeons ).

I know we're still getting punished for other people's incompetence but at least we won't have to wait THAT much.

[Hypa]

I'm probably one of maybe 5 people who's ok with eating the timer. Yes, I may not have been in the wrong, but I'd rather take my time and cool my head before joining another group. Not sure about you guys, but when groups like the OP's happen, I get very aggravated lol. I don't want to take that anger out on another party.

Just a different perspective.

[Sapphic]

I usually just sit there then. I'm the healer, they can't really proceed without me.

They can either agree to vote abandon or kick me. A bad group is a bad group.

Which is one thing that a mod said is reportable, going AFK for the intention of getting kicked.

Just leave and do something else for 30 mins.

[Sapphic]

And you have been punished for being the best player in that group cause you left and got the penalty, which is wrong.

Then you would get players intentionally wiping it over and over on the first pull.