DF Penalty

[Khanscott]

The last person that wanted to not heal 2 new people (my friends, properly geared/skilled for the content mind you) and myself through a dungeon finally ate the 30 min penalty about an hour after we AFK'ed next to him/her and started watching Red Letter Media videos on YouTube.

[Souljacker]

I dislike the idea of a vote for abandon option as it is open to abuse.

People only "abuse" the vote to abandon option in this way because the penalty is too heavy-handed. I think 30 minutes is too long. Either 15 minutes in or after 2-3 wipes. If your group has wiped x times you should absolutely be able to leave that group without penalty and without forcing the rest of the team to vote an abandon.

Folks, sometimes you are going to get people that troll you. It's unfortunate but it's a fact of life and once upon a time gamers just dealt with reality. laughed and moved on. This whole idea of shaping the system to eliminate that one troll while making life harder for the ten or so non-trolls that just want to leave a frustrating dungeon is, in my opinion, a sad symptom of this overly sensitive world we live in today.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

It WAS 15 minutes in early 2.0, but people still abandoned parties because 15 minutes meant nothing to them until the devs doubled the timer. I also don't agree with giving people a free pass if they wipe a few times because it would either encourage people to be even more toxic if there's X wipes or people will become even lazier knowing if they screw up a few times, they can just leave without penalty and do it all over again in another party. It's getting rather silly seeing so many people trying their darndest putting in so much effort just to avoid a few minutes of sitting out of DF.

[Naliee]

Did OP explain to others what they could do differently? Were they newbs?

I don't see any reason WHY SMN and BLM stand next to bosses. Or why tank was dragging boss close to OP.

[Ametrine]

Did OP explain to others what they could do differently? Were they newbs?

I don't see any reason WHY SMN and BLM stand next to bosses. Or why tank was dragging boss close to OP.

She said she did, somewhat, but being on a JP server meant she was dealing with a language barrier.

[KaedrianLiang]

AV is a necessary learning curve.

Doesn't mean i like it.

The coincounter is far less forgiving, than other cyclops type/mechanic/reskins that appear in the game. *cough* fractal, snowcloak, halatali(hm). It's like AV is a catastrophe that even the dev's want to forget. So they don't even attempt to go back and rebalance it.

[Souljacker]

It WAS 15 minutes in early 2.0, but people still abandoned parties because 15 minutes meant nothing to them until the devs doubled the timer. I also don't agree with giving people a free pass if they wipe a few times because it would either encourage people to be even more toxic if there's X wipes or people will become even lazier knowing if they screw up a few times, they can just leave without penalty and do it all over again in another party. It's getting rather silly seeing so many people trying their darndest putting in so much effort just to avoid a few minutes of sitting out of DF.

Could you elaborate on exactly how this would make people *more* toxic? It seems like it would do the opposite. If you wipe a few times that player who normally would start talking trash because he knows he will eat a penalty for leaving\will troll and not participate until kicked\will purposely give the rest a hard time by pulling adds would just... leave. That would be the end of it.

I think you overestimate the number of people who are queuing for dungeons without the intention of actually doing the dungeon. Like I said before, you're getting rid of 1 troll, but at the expense of 10 legitimate players who should have every right to bail on a group that just doesn't mesh well.

There's ways to structure the queues without a bunch of overly harsh *punishments* but gosh, that's what this community likes I guess. It's no wonder there's so many complaints of toxic players in dungeons when literally the entire system is designed to make people as toxic as possible.

[_Pigzig]

yes i have left b4 its not against the tos i cant be bothered with some dungeons

[RiceisNice]

...

It's mostly the tanks or healers that get this attitude because they have practically nothing to lose from bailing on a dungeon if they don't get a penalty to it, due to instant queues. DPS on the otherhand, are waiting for 25+ minutes to get their dungeon queue. If you were to allow them to leave without a penalty after dying a few times, what's stopping those individuals from purposely dying to trash pulls then calling it quits, and leaving the party stranded without a tank/healer. And in-progress tank/healers are a rarity unless you have someone in the FC/LS that's willing to come in; It's as good as abandoning the duty if you lose the tank/healer.

And there's been an increasing amount of these individuals from my experience, it's a lot more than I'd like to admit tbh even compared to the likes of WoW or a moba. I've actually had an encounter where someone couldn't vote kick because they had previously done it before in the same day for the same reason.

[worldofneil]

Am I the only one who wishes SE would (drastically) increase the penalty for leaving? Personally I think the penalty should be whatever time was remaining on the timer when you left (so might be as high as 90 minutes or two hours depending on what instance it was). 30 minutes just isn't long enough to inconvenience people for leaving, especially when it's not just them that's affected. Obviously in most cases it wouldn't take that long to complete the dungeon, but that's the incentive to stay, because the penalty for leaving will definitely take up much more time.

If a tank/healer bails at the start of the dungeon that effectively wastes everyone else's time until someone else does a join in progress which may/may not be for a while. I feel most sorry for the DPS who had to wait to get in, have to wait some more now and then have to wait might have to wait even more if they have to requeue because everyone else leaves.

If the group gets part way through and it's really not working, they have the option to vote abandon. It only needs half the people (so 2/4) to agree for it to go through. So if it's just one person who wants to quit they have to either decide to keep at it, or give up and take the penalty.

Obviously though with 8 person instances that scales up so it'd need 4 people for it to pass, but if people were to then go on strike/refuse to play until they were kicked, then they also risk being reported...

A lot of people don't seem to not understand a roulette is random from the whole list in that group. It's not "random choice of dungeons from the ones I don't mind doing". If you don't want to do a specific dungeon in that group, then don't pick the roulette.