DF Penalty

[RiceisNice]

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Thats why there should be a middle ground of where you'd get no penalty if you leave 30 minutes into an instance (which even WoW does). It still won't address those special individuals who will actually wait off the 30 minutes without ever pulling just to bail of a dungeon, but that's a completely different circumstance and really should be reportable no questions asked.



The situations I bring up though, sadly are not made up and it's becoming increasingly more apparent (the tanks who feel that they shouldn't suffer doing stone vigil or thousand maws) when I go through the trouble of leveling up my other classes via DF. And in the case of wipings, there's no way to prove without reasonable doubt that the wipes were legit or not. I mean there's people who will wait the entire 90 minutes just to dodge a penalty just to spite people, this would not be out of the question for them. There's no control of this and we end up having an alternative for those individuals that love to queue for DF and decline the queue.

Between trying to make things more "fair" for every individual, the primary concern for me is people that are trying to circumvent their penalty for selfish reasons, and I could very well say the same thing for parties who cannot absolutely clear a 4 man dungeon (and I mean because they were legitmately bad, my experiences were groups who would purposely hold the entire party back), are a lot more scarce than people make it out to be. The matter of fact is, both sides of the scenarios are incredible outliers of an average group formation, but one of the two is purposely circumventing something that's placed into the game for otherwise its intended purposes (that is, getting a vote kick to dodge the penalty so they can immediately requeue.)

[MilesSaintboroguh]

words

To add onto what Rice said, you're basically telling people that we can only wipe 2 or 3 times and then any of us can just ditch you because I can find another party without a penalty. This means you've set an unnecessary goal post where now everyone HAS to do the content with minimum wipes or everyone will just take their ball and go home and that's usually from the more impatient people. It's actually quite rare for me to see an entire group not working well together, but it's a lot more common to see one person who is just not doing what they're supposed to do, making them easy to kick out and get a replacement. If someone refuses to leave because they wanted to be kicked out and avoid a penalty, I am quite sure that falls on the grounds of harassment, which can be reported.


If the entire group is falling to pieces, that's what vote abandon is for. If one person is holding everyone back, kick them out. People don't need be quitting just because one person is being a jerk. Remember, 15 minutes wasn't enough to deter people from quitting so chronically and the abuse of fishing for in progress duties was high before the withdraw penalties were added. 30 minutes is not going to kill anyone; you aren't going to get bored any faster waiting 30 minutes to cap your esoterics so that you can run on the forums to complain that there's nothing to do.

[Naliee]

Did OP explain to others what they could do differently? Were they newbs?

I don't see any reason WHY SMN and BLM stand next to bosses. Or why tank was dragging boss close to OP.

[Ametrine]

Did OP explain to others what they could do differently? Were they newbs?

I don't see any reason WHY SMN and BLM stand next to bosses. Or why tank was dragging boss close to OP.

She said she did, somewhat, but being on a JP server meant she was dealing with a language barrier.

[KaedrianLiang]

AV is a necessary learning curve.

Doesn't mean i like it.

The coincounter is far less forgiving, than other cyclops type/mechanic/reskins that appear in the game. *cough* fractal, snowcloak, halatali(hm). It's like AV is a catastrophe that even the dev's want to forget. So they don't even attempt to go back and rebalance it.

[_Pigzig]

yes i have left b4 its not against the tos i cant be bothered with some dungeons

[worldofneil]

Am I the only one who wishes SE would (drastically) increase the penalty for leaving? Personally I think the penalty should be whatever time was remaining on the timer when you left (so might be as high as 90 minutes or two hours depending on what instance it was). 30 minutes just isn't long enough to inconvenience people for leaving, especially when it's not just them that's affected. Obviously in most cases it wouldn't take that long to complete the dungeon, but that's the incentive to stay, because the penalty for leaving will definitely take up much more time.

If a tank/healer bails at the start of the dungeon that effectively wastes everyone else's time until someone else does a join in progress which may/may not be for a while. I feel most sorry for the DPS who had to wait to get in, have to wait some more now and then have to wait might have to wait even more if they have to requeue because everyone else leaves.

If the group gets part way through and it's really not working, they have the option to vote abandon. It only needs half the people (so 2/4) to agree for it to go through. So if it's just one person who wants to quit they have to either decide to keep at it, or give up and take the penalty.

Obviously though with 8 person instances that scales up so it'd need 4 people for it to pass, but if people were to then go on strike/refuse to play until they were kicked, then they also risk being reported...

A lot of people don't seem to not understand a roulette is random from the whole list in that group. It's not "random choice of dungeons from the ones I don't mind doing". If you don't want to do a specific dungeon in that group, then don't pick the roulette.

[Nyalia]

The coincounter is far less forgiving, than other cyclops type/mechanic/reskins that appear in the game. *cough* fractal, snowcloak, halatali(hm).

I always found it MORE forgiving than the Coerthas Central super-FATE boss, personally. I think it's all the adds, and the slopes messing up swing dodging.

Am I the only one who wishes SE would (drastically) increase the penalty for leaving?

Yes.

There's no need to raise the DF penalty. 30 minutes is plenty to inconvenience people who abuse it while not overly penalizing people who leave to get out of a toxic situation or because of a short emergency. If you are so revenge-obsessed that you want to severely punish people who leave your group, you really need to learn to calm down, get over it, and let that anger go. Raising the penalty would only encourage people to vote-kick random folks anyway, possibly starting arguments/hostility with the party to get the other folks to kick one or the other, so they can avoid the penalty.

If the penalty was going to be two hours, and something happened where I'd have to go afk for 15-20 minutes unexpectedly, I'd afk in the duty instead of just leaving. How is that better? No one (with a soul) is going to report someone who goes "brb, family emergency," and it's not like it's going to take two hours to change a diaper or even put out a small kitchen fire.

[KingOfAbyss]

Hey everyone,

What I can propose, for those that don't have the patience to teach, or the other end of the stick, those who don't care and do whatever they want and then not listening after they die 2 times:

Make it so that if you die 4 times on a trial/dungeon/whatever, to be kicked out automatically AND suffer the 30min penalty, to reflect upon what you could have done to prevent it.

So if the entire group fails and wipe 4 times on the same boss (excluding raids of course), it means they were not able to communicate, improve, and they deserve to abandon it by force, as it proves they wouldn't have made it anyway, even with 90 mins available.

so instead of wasting 60 mins, everyone gets a 30mins penalty.

Perhaps then people will start to think twice before engaging, and once inside.. communicate.

I did Fractal yesterday (about my 3rd attempt) and at the beginning I state that I'm still new to it (I don't do my Roulettes every time I play, out of time.) Things are smoother and no one seems to complain, and we finish it.

So there you have my proposition.

Like it or hate it, people that just rant without trying to give others a little text, explaining a bit this boss, instead of 'Last try', the community might git gud, which points at the OP as well.

Sad cause I'm the type that will take 90 mins to complete it if it comes to it, but the community is sooo.. impatient, that we did Praetorium in 15 mins with my GF, and it was her first time. Did she enjoyed it? No need to tell you.

Thank you for reading.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

words

So anyone in a learning party for EX primals and Alexander/Coil will get kicked out by the system very frequently for wiping so much, even though they're communicating with others. Surely nothing bad will come out of that!

BTW, your idea is terrible.