The Real Problem with Parsers

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Well, let's start with the history of statements you made that caught my eye up till now.

A simulation you wrote according to you:

Side A: WE NEED PARSERS SO WE CAN KICK PEOPLE FOR BEING BAD AND WASTING FIVE MORE MINUTES OF MY TIME
Side B: But that's exactly the kind of treatment SE wants to avoid
Side A: THEY SHOULD GET OVER IT GIVE US PARSERS SO WE CAN KICK PEOPLE FOR BEING BAD
Side B: But you're just proving SE right by saying that
Side A: I DON'T CARE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T AFFECT ME IN ANY NEGATIVE WAY AND ANYONE IT DOES IS WEAK GIMME PARSERS
Side B: But -
Side A: PARSERS DON'T MAKE PEOPLE JERKS, JERKS MAKE PEOPLE JERKS WE WILL NOT BE JERKS
Side B: But you're already acting like -
Side A: SEE? PEOPLE ARE JERKS ALREADY GIVE PARSERS
Side B: But that's the kind of people that shouldn't get -
Side A: LOL UR JUST SCARED UR DPS IS CRAP SO U WILL BE KICKED YOU TERRIBAD
Side B: I'm a tank.

Meanwhile in another post:

you seem to believe would become rampant.

I never said that.

I do believe your response to StouterTaru there contradicts with what you mentioned before. Unless, of course, you're insisting that really is what Square-Enix is thinking. But you've also stepped away from this standpoint or any statements being valid concerning Square-Enix.

While on the topic of Square Enix:

I'm not. I'm stating SE's viewpoint and why the current arguments don't do anything to defeat that viewpoint, but rather the opposite. The more people who make personal attacks while talking about parsers and say they need them to kick people who might waste 10 minutes of their precious time, the more reason SE has to expect the community can't handle them.

And if SE doesn't want to put in parsers because of that fear, seeing even one person say things like that makes it that much harder to justify adding parsers.

In particular this gem:

People like me? You mean people like me who want a personal parser so people can improve but don't see how the subjective benefits of a party parser objectively outweigh what SE expects will happen?

I don't have to claim that. The pro-parser side already proves it by saying that they'd totally take people to task over low DPS even in content that doesn't have DPS checks at all. Regardless, that's not my claim. That's SE's fear. It's irrelevant if I make that claim because you still have to prove SE wrong. If I stayed out of this thread completely? Yeah, SE would still think the same thing.

Who says it's unneeded? Remember, SE already has the stance that they don't want people to turn into mouthy jerks if they let them talk about others' DPS. If you want to try to help get parsers, you've got to somehow convince them that they're wrong. Which means dispute is absolutely needed. I'd also put forward that it's a litmus test for their own fears. If people can't even handle talking ABOUT parsers without resorting to personal attacks, why should SE expect that they can handle USING parsers without personal attacks?

Coming from people who completely admit that they'll be the people that SE doesn't want?

Which a personal parser can completely do, which I've already said repeatedly I'm absolutely fine with and is a great middle ground for SE because it lets people see their DPS to improve but prevents people from seeing others' DPS to be the elitists SE doesn't want them to be.

Prove it. SE thinks that the number is high enough to warrant not allowing it, so they're the ones you have to convince. Prove it.

Finally:

I'm not clutching at anything. I already said that what their stance is is irrelevant to my own position so I don't really care.

So with all the Square-Enix statements stripped away, that leaves us with your latest post:

I'm pro-parser. I'm anti-jerk.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be in the game, period. I'm saying they shouldn't be in the game if people aren't mature enough to handle them.

So no, it's not contradictory if you consider my entire stance rather than condensing it into the black and white "pro-" and "anti-" crowd

Exactly who are you to judge whether the community is mature enough? You're currently stuck in the limbo of wishes and fearful. If you really are pro-parser as you say, why are you so afraid of it being implemented? If the community isn't going to be a jerk to you about it, why would it bother you? Because this applies not only to you, but for a good chunk of the player base. There are to extreme ends; People who play terrible and those who achieve the maximum possible. But would either be immature according to you? If so, do elaborate in an objective manner.

The common argument (as by previous posts in this topic) would be "I play like I want" or "I'm paying for this game". This applies for others too; if you're choosing how to play, others choose who to play with. Regardless of the parser being present or absent, this will always be the case. So this brings me back to the first post I made in this topic:

You can't blame the tool for a player's behaviour. That's on the same level as blaming a bicycle while cyclists are ignoring traffic rules.

I haven't bothered reading through 38 pages worth of yes-no-yes-no arguments, so I'll drop my 2 cents here: Stop looking at a possible witch hunt that may or may not be initiated by a selective group of people - Hooligans among football fans or literal medieval witch hunting. A parser tool could be useful for those who want to improve their damage output and get out of the so called "scrub zone". If such tools did not exist, no one would have created these "optimal DPS rotation guides" that's all over the place. Prime example being the dragoon topic here. Sure, you can create a rotation based on just theory, but this would create questions as why the rotation in question is "the best" and people start pulling out their spreadsheet programs based on average numbers they put out they see on screen. You could say they're manually "parsing". Such tools would just make it easier and help those improve for those who want to improve. Not only that, if said tools are presented on a silver platter, it may even motivate players to improve more. It takes far less effort and time than using spreadsheets, after all. For those who do not want to improve should not be surprised if they can't beat current- or last patch content till gear makes it completely obsolete. Nor should they be surprised if they get kicked out from parties for being the main cause for failing DPS checks for certain encounters. Which can be argued with what the OP started with what can be roughly translated into "I play like how I want to play". Such comments are double edged. If you choose how you want to play, then the same applies to others and who they decide to play with.

On that note: Damn cyclists are still ignoring traffic rules