The Real Problem with Parsers

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

I wonder why using another third party program as a tool, but you manually copied the data *coughdataminingcough* and wrote the formula yourself is considered "fine". But a parser that does the exact same you do in excel automatically for you isn't - Which also saves you 90% of the time spend over manually doing things.

[JackFross]

Sure. Have this post, this post, this post and if you really want I have a spreadsheet I could upload again...

Well, I really hope you aren't serious...

http://puu.sh/kpfn4/3a320509a3.png

... because if you're going to try and tell me that the first link proves that there is anything other than a linear correspondence with potencies, I really don't know what to tell you. The other links all expound on the same data. Like. If you're saying one is 1% off of being exactly the correct proportion, you're making mountains out of molehills.

//Yeah, those points don't all spit out exactly the same values and the variance isn't 0, but the general trend is linear, regardless. The exact linear correspondence isn't necessarily an easy thing to find, but to openly say "Potencies sometimes aren't linear" and then throw data in my face that is essentially linear feels like you're insulting my intelligence or something.

I wonder why using another third party program as a tool, but you manually copied the data *coughdataminingcough* and wrote the formula yourself is considered "fine". But a parser that does the exact same you do in excel automatically for you isn't - Which also saves you 90% of the time spend over manually doing things.

Because I'm using it to make calculations, I'm not having it read through FFXIV's files automatically to scrape and compile data for me. I really don't feel like digging through the ToS to find the exact line that prohibits datamining for you.

Though, again. Parsing programs aren't *technically* outlawed, since the GMs (generally) won't care unless you use the data they give you to harass other players.

[bardaboo]

[QUOTE=JackFross;3342404

(how is this still on topic? I'm continuing to prove that you can calculate and discover the skill floor for your class *without* the aid of a parser, so the argument that you need one to know if you are even meeting bare minimum for your class is baseless)[/QUOTE]

Ok. Now say for example you are wondering how you did during a boss fight... maybe you missed a positional, or lagged and missed a blood for blood before a sidewinder, good luck pulling those numbers out after the dungeon is done. A number on screen would be quite amazing.I don't need to see other people's numbers to know if i did the best i could do. If I'm curious I'd ask them. Fights are messy, how about that battle litany, did it up my dps, or foe requiem... As1 Savage i have to ask my dps after every single clear on faust... frikking annoying.

[Aiselia]

Ok. Now say for example you are wondering how you did during a boss fight... maybe you missed a positional, or lagged and missed a blood for blood before a sidewinder, good luck pulling those numbers out after the dungeon is done. A number on screen would be quite amazing.I don't need to see other people's numbers to know if i did the best i could do. If I'm curious I'd ask them. Fights are messy, how about that battle litany, did it up my dps, or foe requiem... As1 Savage i have to ask my dps after every single clear on faust... frikking annoying.

Well, that's why they already said this several pages ago:

On the one hand, we do need an official way of measuring DPS so players who don't have access to parsing programs can self-evaluate and improve. This is good.

[JackFross]

The point has been that you don't need a parser to figure out the ideal way to play your class. You only need one to confirm that you're doing so. Even still, I don't think a parser would help you figure out the ideal way to play the class. Without at least a basic idea of the math behind your class, you'll always be shy of playing it "properly" as the current meta dictates. You either get that math basis by calculating yourself (which I'm showing is "easy" to do) or by looking up a guide whose author has already done that legwork for you.

[JackFross]

This is a discussion for another thread, tbh, but out of curiosity, how many data points are you getting where you find those min/max values? You only seem to record those two rather than the full range, so I'm just curious how many times you're using these longer cooldown skills like Sneak Attack.

And the fact that it's vaguely NOT perfectly linear doesn't change the fact that, for all intents and purposes beyond *precise* calculation, it's linear "enough" to use ratios between potencies as direct correspondences to ratios between damage outputs. You're splitting hairs to prove my discussion of optimization wrong when none of your data does anything to disrupt the things I discussed in any notable way.


I don't deny that it's wonky, but the variances in the linear trend of the potencies don't matter *enough* to make the practice of using potencies as approximations of damage ratios ineffective/incorrect to any reasonable extent.

(so optimal rotations can still be reasoned out through mathematics performed on values provided in-game, without the use of a parsing program to record your actual damage output)

[Viridiana]

This is a discussion for another thread, tbh, but out of curiosity, how many data points are you getting where you find those min/max values? You only seem to record those two rather than the full range, so I'm just curious how many times you're using these longer cooldown skills like Sneak Attack.

As many as it took to get the ratio very close to 21/19 for max/min. Not a big deal for, say, the Mutilate numbers, which I could usually get in about 30 seconds or so due to the low spread. Getting the SA numbers…let's just say there's a reason I don't also have TA numbers there. But to speak to the accuracy of the SA numbers, my strategy for determining accuracy is this. Take max/min (1593/1440) and subtract it from the 5% spread ratio (1.05/.95, or 21/19). If you get a negative number, you almost certainly have the full spread, because the spread is already bigger than ±5%. If it's positive, take the reciprocal and compare to the max value. In this case, that's 1826.5 vs 1593. I'd say that the spread is accurate to one point in about 1827 and so I wouldn't expect another data point.

[HoodRat]

People still parse dungeons? I had to stop after the numerous depressing runs where my dps was higher than the healer's and both dps' combined.

[bardaboo]

So bottom line... unless you wanna waste a bunch of time doing math... parsers are cool

[Kuroyasha]

So bottom line... unless you wanna waste a bunch of time doing math... parsers are cool

this made me laugh. GG