The Real Problem with Parsers

[Aiselia]

Why can't people just learn how to dps

Why can't people just learn how to create their own groups if they want to control the rest of their group instead of trying to force a random group to conform to their standards?

If you parse someone and shame them and waste their queue time by kicking them, how do you know their random replacement is going to be any better or maybe even worse? Are you just going to kick them too and waste their queue time too?

[Isala]

Why can't people just learn how to create their own groups if they want to control the rest of their group instead of trying to force a random group to conform to their standards?

If you parse someone and shame them and waste their queue time by kicking them, how do you know their random replacement is going to be any better or maybe even worse? Are you just going to kick them too and waste their queue time too?

And that's why the majority rule is a glorious thing. If the majority of the group think you're a waste of space because you can't play, that means you get the boot. If the majority is willing to put up with, and even carry you, then you get to stay. But I do find it personally amusing that you call it wasting their queue time, when that's precisely what they're doing for the other 3/7 players because they can't be arsed to play right.

[Aiselia]

And that's why the majority rule is a glorious thing. If the majority of the group think you're a waste of space because you can't play, that means you get the boot. If the majority is willing to put up with, and even carry you, then you get to stay. But I do find it personally amusing that you call it wasting their queue time, when that's precisely what they're doing for the other 3/7 players because they can't be arsed to play right.

Sorry, that didn't answer any of my questions.

Please try again.

Also, kicking someone who has to wait half an hour in queue has wasted at least half an hour plus the time it took you to decide to kick them plus another half an hour if they queue again. If you can still clear it with them in the party except it might take 10 more minutes, you have a grossly inflated sense of entitlement if you think that your ten minutes are more important than their hour and should probably get over yourself.

[StouterTaru]

Also, kicking someone who has to wait half an hour in queue has wasted at least half an hour plus the time it took you to decide to kick them plus another half an hour if they queue again. If you can still clear it with them in the party except it might take 10 more minutes, you have a grossly inflated sense of entitlement if you think that your ten minutes are more important than their hour and should probably get over yourself.

That hypothetical person has wasted the half hour the other 3 dps were sitting in queue waiting, plus the 10 minutes before the vote kick, plus the ten minutes and queue time of the tanks and healers. (not sure why you're double dipping on queue time, so I did the same)

Other people don't exist to carry your bloated carcass through content.

[Aiselia]

Other people don't exist to carry your bloated carcass through content.

Party finder exists to not have to worry about carrying people. If you queued for a random group? Guess what? You do exist to try to get through the dungeon with that random group.

"Not high enough DPS" is not a reason on the vote kick list.

unless they eventually strive to improve themselves, which can be prompted by…I dunno, kicking them from a group?

Kicking them from the group without trying to help them get better first isn't going to do anything, and don't pretend like it will.

wasting at least 30 minutes of people's time every day.

And if those people cared about their time, they could use PF or their FC to ensure a well-geared and knowledgeable group.

There are tools in-game to avoid getting random people that may be bad. If anyone chooses to not use them, that is not the fault of anybody but themselves.

[Viridiana]

Party finder exists to not have to worry about carrying people. If you queued for a random group? Guess what? You do exist to try to get through the dungeon with that random group.

Duty finder exists to do content, not try to get carried. If you're with a random group? Guess what? You do exist to not hinder the group.

Seriously, the general playerbase here needs to improve. If that means having to remove people from groups in order to get through to them, then so be it.

Kicking them from the group without trying to help them get better first isn't going to do anything, and don't pretend like it will.

And if those people cared about their time, they could use PF or their FC to ensure a well-geared and knowledgeable group.

There are tools in-game to avoid getting random people that may be bad. If anyone chooses to not use them, that is not the fault of anybody but themselves.

Kicking them from group after trying to help them and them being unreceptive has a decent chance to work, though, especially if it's happening consistently. I've already made it clear in both these parser threads that I fully believe in trying to help people get better before resorting to kicking them, and you should know that. >_>

As for PF, PF is still random people who may be bad. It's just a smaller set of people to choose from and would probably lead to a longer queue time (I haven't tested this, granted). As for FC/LS, that works reasonably, but people don't always want to run dungeons at the same time.

[Aiselia]

Duty finder exists to do content

And kicking people because they're not up to your standards prevents them from getting content done.

If that means having to remove people from groups in order to get through to them, then so be it.

Statements like this reaffirm SE's reasons for not putting them in.

It's surprising to find so many people trying to support a position by constantly undermining it.

I mean, if you're trying to convince them that they're wrong if they think that parsers will result in more people kicked, outright saying that they'll totally result in more people kicked probably isn't the best way to go.

[StouterTaru]

If you queued for a random group? Guess what? You do exist to try to get through the dungeon with that random group.

And if you aren't getting through because one person is a giant anchor around the neck of the party? Lookie there, kick the person, get through content.

[Viridiana]

If you can still clear it with them in the party except it might take 10 more minutes, you have a grossly inflated sense of entitlement if you think that your ten minutes are more important than their hour and should probably get over yourself.

Well, a half hour spread out among the party, versus about an hour for the non-performer. And that's not counting that a non-performer will go on to waste the time of others unless they eventually strive to improve themselves, which can be prompted by…I dunno, kicking them from a group? I mean, I don't usually care enough as long as crap's dying, but someone wasting 10 minutes in a dungeon every day is wasting at least 30 minutes of people's time every day.