The Real Problem with Parsers

[koroko220]

Welcome to the conversation, where we keep asking for SE to implement an official parser specifically so that PS3 and PS4 can have access.

I personally don't care if we can have them or not. I just think it's unfair for people to use parse numbers against each other in unfair ways. Someone says you're doing 900 for example and acting like a douche about it, meanwhile they're doing 800 and you can't call them out on it cuz you can't see the numbers. I know most people won't use their parsers for evil, but I'm sure situations like this to happen.

[Viridiana]

I personally don't care if we can have them or not. I just think it's unfair for people to use parse numbers against each other in unfair ways. Someone says you're doing 900 for example and acting like a douche about it, meanwhile they're doing 800 and you can't call them out on it cuz you can't see the numbers. I know most people won't use their parsers for evil, but I'm sure situations like this to happen.

Welcome to the conversation, where we keep asking for SE to implement an official parser specifically so that PS3 and PS4 can have access.

You're trying to argue that parsers are bad because PS3/4 don't get them and people could harass people with it, but we're arguing that PS3/4 should have them and harassers should be banned.

[Kumori_Kumo]

but we're arguing that PS3/4 should have them and harassers should be banned.

That's the hard part, though. That sounds agreeable, to be sure, but when something is a part of the game, it becomes harder to police. Right now Parsers aren't officially allowed, so if you use it unwisely, it's easy to justify punitive measures. But if parsers are just another part of the game like, say, gear, well it's much harder to say that you can't use that against somebody. It's not a 1-to-1 comparison, as you can always get better gear, but... for instance, someone I play with has arthritis in their hands. Still more people just don't have very good reflexes. Their numbers being inferior aren't things that they can improve and aren't generally their fault, but they would suddenly be responsible for them by the game's very UI.

[Viridiana]

Their numbers being inferior aren't things that they can improve and aren't generally their fault, but they would suddenly be responsible for them by the game's very UI.

They're already responsible for them. For people with actual legitimate issues hindering their play, they need to be able to properly assess their own play level and determine what content they should be doing and how. Just like everyone else should be. If someone sees the person you're talking about and thinks they're underperforming, there are many reasonable courses of action from there that all lead to a simple explanation of the circumstances and both parties moving on. People who physically or mentally can't muster the needed DPS shouldn't be doing content that they can't finish, agreed? And they shouldn't be harassed for it, just like they shouldn't be harassed for anything else because harassment is unacceptable.

[Kumori_Kumo]

People who physically or mentally can't muster the needed DPS shouldn't be doing content that they can't finish, agreed?

How can I put this?
Okay.
I don't know if you've ever been or dealt with someone who is disabled, but an important aspect of being so is trying to break through previous barriers. Sometimes these can be consistent wins, and sometimes they're flukes that happen in moments of extreme competence and focus. These moments are incredibly important. So locking oneself out of something they might complete (especially with job mixes, interactions and other facets of teamwork) is a really bad place to be in, and a bad precedent to set. You're not required to help someone try and overcome their limitations, but that's kind of the whole story thematic of the entire game and I would kind of hope that would resonate in some way.

[koroko220]

You're trying to argue that parsers are bad because PS3/4 don't get them and people could harass people with it, but we're arguing that PS3/4 should have them and harassers should be banned.

Then carry on just putting my thoughts in on it when I know I shouldn't stick my nose in it lol

[Elladie]

I'm unsure about parsers. I mostly play healers (and mostly SCH at that) so it's pretty easy for me (and everyone else in the group) to tell if I'm doing okay. I've healed up to Final Coil raids, not progressing any further with that currently because it's hard to find folks interested in doing old content. I am definitely not AlexS ready, I'm sure, though I'm not incompetent by any means. I'd call myself a casual because I'm not all that bothered about raid progression; it's generally something I look to do further down the line and mostly with friends.

I'm levelling my BLM currently - semi-levelling anyway - so that I can be a bit more fluid when it comes to content. Some of my friends have only healers at 60; if I don't have another role to fill, I don't get to play content with them. I am finding BLM post 56 very intimidating. I'd like a personal parser in-game so I can try and work out for myself the best ways to maintain enochian, how long I can safely hold onto a proc, the best times to use key-lines. That kind of thing. But - and for me this is a very big BUT - I'm already terrified to go into dungeons with folk I don't know because I'm scared they won't take on board that I'm new to this, new to those dungeons as a DPS, and trying my hardest. I know just a couple of personal attacks will be enough to shatter my confidence completely, at which point I'll go back to avoiding DPS jobs completely. Playing a deeps fills me with terror; how do you guys deal with the grief you get?!

I guess what I'm saying is that - yeah, I get that you don't want to carry someone, but can't you try and be a little patient with those of us at the start of a pretty steep learning curve. I know it will take me a lot of practise to pick up all the nuances to getting good at BLM; if I get abused in a dungeon because I haven't made it there yet, I'll most likely just give up. I'm not an incompetent player, I do okay on healer, but healing doesn't scare the bejesus out of me! My BLM will be relatively well geared because I've been using my law tomes to do that, but it won't have the expertise for some time that will allow me to pull out 800-1k DPS. If I can parse myself, I can study what works and what doesn't. If someone else can parse me, and they're a dick about my crap effort, that's not going make my day more sunny and fluffy-bunny filled!

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

. . . can't you try and be a little patient with those of us at the start of a pretty steep learning curve.

Let me put your mind at ease, Elladie.

People like yourself are the ones I have absolute patience for. BECAUSE you're trying. I was completely new to MMOs when I started this; I pushed myself to become good, and once there, become better. And while I did it without parsers, I'd imagine being able to see the numerical results of my efforts would've only gotten me where I wanted to be much quicker and more efficiently. But I would be the last person to dump on someone learning a different job (and I only FINALLY leveled BLM in 2.5. Until then, I didn't get it either, lol.)

One last note: Do NOT give up, especially based on what someone else says. If you're not good now, keep trying, keep leveling, and keep practicing. I tell people all the time, if you by chance catch me at a training dummy, I'm not screwing around. I'm actually practicing and refining what I know. Hitting 60/ilvl210 or whatever is nothing but a foundation to build upon. Build YOURSELF up.

[pandabearcat]

Yea but teamwork or not if you're doing 900 dps in faust you're not going to get anywhere. And throwing yourself at it over and over isn't going to magically teamwork your way to victory.

It is very easy to metric tanks and healers - if people die, someone is doing something wrong.

But dps have a responsibility, that generally speaking is (if you let it be) much more important than the healer/tank responsibility.

There isn't any tanking or real healing checks. There is only dps checks. So if you're not downing the boss because of low dps it means literally that your dps is failing. And some times people fail so spectacularly as to be as noticeable as a tank eating a buster w/o any mitigation, except its harder to see because there isn't any transparent dps. And if that person whines about being 30% less dps...well its your party. Deal with it how you wish.

[Clarkamite]

Yea but teamwork or not if you're doing 900 dps in faust you're not going to get anywhere. And throwing yourself at it over and over isn't going to magically teamwork your way to victory.

See I like this. There's a certain limit of DPS you can put out yourself that will compensate for the lack of DPS someone else in your group is putting out. Ignoring the fact that you giving 110% while someone else is putting out half the effort that they should is irresponsible, there is a limit to how much you can make up for. Teamwork can only take you so far and how much of it is teamwork when one or two people aren't giving their best?