It's Time To Wake up

[Miscreant]

Skill bloat is having TOO many skills that are largely redundant and not fun. Yes, skills can be useful, but when you have multiple cds that just do a hit on a 15-90 sec cd, have a different flavor of "Do Bonus Damage" or are just not pressed (see feint, haymaker, arrow volley/quick nock, blood for blood/raging strikes, Sidewinder and every other ability that 60+ sec that just does damage for examples).

Yawn...another player who hasn't really done any serious end game content complaining about a game they have only half played and skills that are necessary in serious end game content. Abilities with similar effects are needed, some times you pop all of your abilities in succession some times you space them out, fights vary, rotations vary. Half of the skill in this game is tracking those multiple skills and knowing the right time to use them.

That Quelling Strikes thing made me laugh though...I'm guessing you haven't seen a Black Mage rip mobs off a tank before.

[Fendred]

Yawn...another player who hasn't really done any serious end game content complaining about a game they have only half played and skills that are necessary in serious end game content. Abilities with similar effects are needed, some times you pop all of your abilities in succession some times you space them out, fights vary, rotations vary. Half of the skill in this game is tracking those multiple skills and knowing the right time to use them.

That Quelling Strikes thing made me laugh though...I'm guessing you haven't seen a Black Mage rip mobs off a tank before.

You are a scholar. Healers and tanks do not have the problem damage dealers have in this game. The situation is that the damage dealers require more concerted effort to play to max efficiency than tanks or healers. Not only this, but it acts as a soft cap on play time for the damage dealers. My friend is a dragoon and I'm currently playing ninja. We both tried to do a speed run with a friendly tank and healer. Both of them were willing to go for 2-4 more runs while us two DD were ready to vomit and pass out from just doing 1 1/2 runs of Expert Roulette. To clarify, we were trying to speed run stuff at maximum efficiency. The only other game that exhausted me in this way was Wild Star, and that was during raids. Half the raid would be passed out before we could finish the first boss, only at least there it felt satisfying, while here we're now in conflict with the other two roles over how long we can play.

Edit: Also, Wild Star flopped hard.

[Malevicton]

blorp

If you were trying to speedrun a dungeon at "maximum efficiency" why were you on drg/nin >.<

[Miscreant]

You are a scholar. Healers and tanks do not have the problem damage dealers have in this game. The situation is that the damage dealers require more concerted effort to play to max efficiency than tanks or healers. Not only this, but it acts as a soft cap on play time for the damage dealers.

LMAO that's got to be the stupidest thing I've heard today! You're talking like I've never played as a dps before. Either way as a Scholar I'm expected to heal, deal a decent amount of damage and handle a large portion of the mechanics in Savage. I'm not going to say Ninja is easy, but you have a hell of a lot less to deal with than a healer or a tank.

Also speed running is harder on tanks and healers, they were probably just better than you...

[Fendred]

LMAO that's got to be the stupidest thing I've heard today! You're talking like I've never played as a dps before. Either way as a Scholar I'm expected to heal, deal a decent amount of damage and handle a large portion of the mechanics in Savage. I'm not going to say Ninja is easy, but you have a hell of a lot less to deal with than a healer or a tank.

Also speed running is harder on tanks and healers, they were probably just better than you...

Right back at you, considering the entirety of the forums seems to disagree with you. Not to mention I've played all three roles across both expansions, so I have a pretty good feel for the difficulty of each and how much that changes with the extra abilities. The only reason you're probably saying that at all is because you play scholar, which is a pet class and arguably the hardest of the three healers to run. Granted I'm assuming that it is harder than astrologian.

[DreameR7g]

Snip

Logical Fallacy: Argumentum ad populum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

I would have to agree with Miscreant though. DPS do have less responsibility than the other roles since all they need to do is optimize damage and know mechanics. Now, I'm not saying either is easy (although it can be depending on perspective) but Tanks and Healers do have more responsbility than DPS do.

[Fendred]

Logical Fallacy: Argumentum ad populum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

I would have to agree with Miscreant though. DPS do have less responsibility than the other roles since all they need to do is optimize damage and know mechanics. Now, I'm not saying either is easy (although it can be depending on perspective) but Tanks and Healers do have more responsbility than DPS do.

Tanks and healers have their abilities divided into two categories for group and solo play, respectively. This limits the complexity of both given those abilities need to share the same UI space. Damage dealers are only responsible for doing damage, so their entire UI bar is dedicated to that particular task, minus minor utility abilities. The combat system in FFXIV does not make use of resistances, so every ability that contributes to damage gets thrown into a massive rotation. Add a new ability and people expect you to use it to maximum effect. While they have only one thing to do, it is twice as involving in comparison to what the tanks and healers have to do in a group, which is purposely cut down to make room for solo oriented abilities.

The only real exception to this rule is the scholar, and that's because they have a pet to manage on top of having the same number of active abilities as the white mage. Also, I doubt you are here to exercise any intellectual muster for the well-being of others here, considering you are defending someone who chose to mock and belittle someone else who made no personal attack against them. Especially since constructive debate that uses such terminology is based on a healthy dose of self respect for both sides, which you have failed to garner by aligning yourself with a douchebag.

[DreameR7g]

Snip

You can argue that because their entire role is only 1 aspect (I.E. dealing damage) and tanks/healers have many aspects to deal with (Soloing, Party, Situational, Damage) that the complication of the multi-varied rotations makes it a bit more difficult for them to be optimal. Damage Dealers only need to know the optimal rotation for their job and that is pretty much it. The complication of Damage Dealers, of course, is how to use your long string of abilities to maximum effectiveness. Once you have it down, though, you know it and it doesn't really change by situation. Maybe once or twice but not too much. In my view, monk is the most complicated of the DDs due to the fact of juggling the Greased Lightning mechanic along with the optimal rotation.

I can see your point, though. In terms of rotation, you CAN argue they have less to do via pure rotation but more to do in terms of mechanics. Tanks have to be wary of when tank busters come in, where the mob is facing so the party don't get screwed as a result, position the mob optimally so DD's can be optimal. Healers have to be wary about debuffs, DDs not being able to dodge and thus expending more of their resource (MP) to save them, creating a whole new slew of problems.

Also, intellectual terminology can stand on its own. You don't have to respect me but you can't argue against it purely because of the morality of the peoeple who use it. And you don't know my morality so you're being prejudiced against me.