It's Time To Wake up

[Evanoel]

Job distinction. The class system was a nice throwback to 1.0, but now its just a meaningless restriction to new players. Wanna make a physical DPS? You HAVE to level lancer to 34. Caster DPS? LEVEL A RANGER/BARD. At least tanks only have to level other tanks and/or just monk to level 12 and be done. What does this yield? 3-5 mandatory abilities to play your class well. Invigorate, Swiftcast, Protect, Quelling Strikes(lol like people use this), Blood for Blood for a minor dps CD, Raging Strikes... It's not a choice when you are only given at most 5 skills that are possibly useful (warriors actual have to choose from 6 but that's pretty minor ultimatley).

This. At least put the mandatory cross class skills at low lvl, not at lv 25+++.

[Hix]

If you wanted to play GW2 then why did you buy FFXIV?

[Evtrai]

Everyone has their own wish list of what they want, and the problem is that one person's wishlist conflicts with another persons. For example, I want:.

You bring some interesting points, especially the "more fun stats" as it stands out I feel like the system is pretty barebones, there's no point on using different gear other than what's best in slot, because there's no purpose, there's only one optimal rotation, only one combination of them is the best. It's not like you can ever try a different build for any job, it'll always be the same.

The server issues as painful, especially when dealing with both SMN/SCH pets ignoring your commands.

There's basically no variation of gameplay, one of the heavy atraction of the game was the Armory system, I'm currently maining summoner, why would I level up monk? which was my primary on 2.0, I'm not gonna be like, okay, I'm gonna bring Monk tonight to savage, because the system is so restrictive as it stands right now that you are pretty much locked of doing any relevant content outside of what you already started, so in the end, it's pretty much like I went to WoW, and created a new character from scratch skipping the story, there's basically no purpose other than novelty to level and play other classes.

One of my hopes of Heavensward was that they would revamp the gear system because it's incredibly simplistic as it stands right now, other than staring at the cool skins and awesome gear designs, but from a practical point of view the gear is boring as hell, and as long as they keep this ilvl system the gear other than for skins is always going to be boring.

I like the game, I'm not a hardcore player but I do raid, if it wasn't for my current static I don't see myself playing FFXIV, the moment my static breaks is probably my last day in FFXIV.

I often find myself on my freetime logged in and thinking, I wish there was something to do, what is there to do besides waiting for raid times, capping tomes, crafting food/consumables for raids.. Oh right, PvP, if only it wasn't utterly broken, ive played other MMO's before and PvP is the time killer but it's just not working, the 3 factions thing are no bueno.

I have been playing since early 1.0 then retired and ever since 2.0, and now 3.0, and I can't help to feel that this game has an incredible potential but it's afraid to try different things which is bizarre considering the huge variety of content type FFXI had, and I'm not talking currently, I speak of core or first expansion. I hope I'm proven wrong, but I'm pretty sure the update path is going to be the same as 2.0, Raid, story, 2 new dungeons (since it was already confirmed), mind numbing relic grind of old content > 24 man raid, new primal, 2 new dungeons, story > 2 new dungeons, 8 man raid, primal, story > 24 man dungeon, relic grind, story, primal, possible PvP updates likely to rank and new gear. I seriously wish and hope I'm proven wrong.

And before anyone else brings the usual arguments when someone brings up this kind of topics:
Have you leveled all your classes to 60? - I'm not interested in leveling all the classes to 60, when it's absolutely pointless.
Have you beaten Alex Savage? No, but this brings the huge issue that what am I supposed to do on my free time till my raiding group gathers.
Have you leveled all your crafts to 60? Not all of them.

[Akiza]

revamping the gear system to include a variety of stats is pointless becuase it'll create another problem armoury bloat.
I think the main problem is there isn't enough variety of content and mini games.
There has to be some form of character progression post level cap to keep players busy.

[Neophyte]

Stats: totally agree here. While you usually want BiS, if you don't do endgame content you're pretty much good with the highest level item around. I wish that the customized stats weren't just a crafting specialty and I hoped that I could customize some stats like I wanted, because I have so much parry but it's completely worthless that I can't do anything but just to keep it (and even the eso axe has parry!).
And I wish indeed that the stats could give us some sort of output: I have 1936 defense but how much damage reduction is it? How much parry% is 573?! How much % id 673 accuracy? I shouldn't go to a site to translate those stats, just saying.

This. Why don't we have something like this?! (That's not all, you have even additional mouseover-information in D3, too.)

And in FF14..It's just hilarious.. .there are entries for "Attack magic potency" and "Attack power" on the character chart.. and they are literally the same values as the according main stat.

Wow, so with 1000 intelligence I have an "Attack magic potency" of... 1000. Thanks for the information, really thank you very much, I don't know what to do without this information.

[Kosmos992k]

Time to wake up? In that case why did you accompany your call to wake with a manifesto so sleep inducing that I feel it has helped me cope better with insomnia?

Sorry, but I disagree with your post and views, well, in so far as I could stay awake enough to read them.

[Duelle]

You must not have played many mmo's. FFXI, for instance, had a zillion more skills than XIV, and it was played on consoles. Most other MMO's, aside from guild wars, have more than 10 skills you use regularly.

The jobs in XI that had a zillion skills were still boiled down to 4 or 5 abilities. For the million songs BRDs had, for example, the only ones that mattered ended up being March, Ballad, Madrigal once in a blue moon and Carnage Elegy when the planets aligned. Anyone focused on nuking pretty much uses their strongest element (Thunder or Blizzard, depending on how you merited).

This. Why don't we have something like this?! (That's not all, you have even additional mouseover-information in D3, too.)

And in FF14..It's just hilarious.. .there are entries for "Attack magic potency" and "Attack power" on the character chart.. and they are literally the same values as the according main stat.

Wow, so with 1000 intelligence I have an "Attack magic potency" of... 1000. Thanks for the information, really thank you very much, I don't know what to do without this information.

This was brought up back in beta, and the developers were pretty much saying "yeah, it's better if you don't know the percentages based off of value". On some level I think they don't want theorycrafters to accurately derive stuff (the way WoW theorycrafters could tell you how much defense rating you needed as a tank to become uncritable) to retain some semblance of control over the game. Hiding the effects of stats also makes subtle changes and nerfs to things much less noticeable.

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Skill bloat is one, one that will have to be addressed next expansion at the latest.

Agreed. I wasn't expecting them to add 5 abilities over the HW job questlines. I figured we'd get two, one at 55 and then one at 60 with a bunch of story stuff in between.

Job distinction. The class system was a nice throwback to 1.0, but now its just a meaningless restriction to new players. Wanna make a physical DPS? You HAVE to level lancer to 34. Caster DPS? LEVEL A RANGER/BARD. At least tanks only have to level other tanks and/or just monk to level 12 and be done. What does this yield? 3-5 mandatory abilities to play your class well. Invigorate, Swiftcast, Protect, Quelling Strikes(lol like people use this), Blood for Blood for a minor dps CD, Raging Strikes... It's not a choice when you are only given at most 5 skills that are possibly useful (warriors actual have to choose from 6 but that's pretty minor ultimatley).

Problem is that resolving this involves changing most classes and also their place in the storyline. Entry into your chosen city state does push you towards the local guilds. It would take a WoW Cataclysm-style revamp of Eorzea to pull this off (the gladiator's guild could be absorbed by the Sultansworn as a training academy for prospective members, for example).

DPS. I have to point it out, if you are going to tune savage fights to the point that you need to be performing the best you can, you have to have a way to know you are doing good damage, and you cannot do this without a third party program. Otherwise the bard, warrior, or paladin that is only performing at 40% of their damage potential just makes the group feel like they are under performing without knowing what exactly is wrong. All this does is make those that are pulling their weight get disheartened since OBVIOUSLY there is something that they as a dragoon, monk, and/or blackmage are doing wrong, since the bard is hitting the right songs.

I'd probably focus on the fact that raid clears were hinging on DPS from non-DPS jobs to skip on the time it would normally take to gear DPS jobs to meet those DPS checks. That's why some have convinced themselves all tanks should drop their tanking stance and use DPS accessories instead of playing like tanks.

[Eumenide]

Quelling Strikes(lol like people use this), Blood for Blood for a minor dps CD

what.... I don't... what... MINOR?!?!

[Voltyblast]

This was brought up back in beta, and the developers were pretty much saying "yeah, it's better if you don't know the percentages based off of value". On some level I think they don't want theorycrafters to accurately derive stuff (the way WoW theorycrafters could tell you how much defense rating you needed as a tank to become uncritable) to retain some semblance of control over the game. Hiding the effects of stats also makes subtle changes and nerfs to things much less noticeable.

So the devs prefers to make us play the "My X is bigger than your X" game huh?

And it's hard to hide the effects of stats when the nerfs are noticeable at first glance (str and dex not affecting parry/block dmg reduction and chance for example) and when the exact % IS required for certain content: accuracy needs a cap for raiding and without knowing what percentage it is, people will just pretend that the higher the better when you're already overcapped and overcapping is very often done, because you don't know the exact amount of accuracy required!. The game has no crit immunity so that's also out of the way, and parry is the most useless tanking stat ever since it's extremely low even with 600 parry, which should be about 4 to 5% (and no I didn't check the exact amount. That's the game's job, not mine). Determination maybe has a smal amount of % that it increases but still not sure why it shouldn't be there.

So in my opinion, there's no real need to hide the stats % or effects: if anything what this situation do is just make people focus on one stat and make it "bigger" and forget about the rest. But I think they're just lazy about it.

[SinisterJointss]

Oh, Now I get it, you don't have a single class leveled up past 50. Of course you don't see the problems that the new skills cause. So, please, stop licking your own boot and get some experience to bring into the conversation please. This wasn't as much an issue in 2.0, 3.0 and later it will be.

I hate having to bring up character levels, but its largely relevant to the conversation at hand. Please stop trying to ask for me to repeat myself, if you want examples, you can find those in the first page of the thread, and I bring up multiple examples of redundant skills that could/should be merged into others. This is all I have to say to you on this topic, it's not going anywhere as you aren't going to see reason.

The fact that you think that this might be my only account is pretty amusing. Do you really think that I would be in here talking about endgame "bloat" due to newly gained skills at 60 and not have a single battle class to max level? Interesting.

What is even more funny is that even though Ive asked multiple times where all this "bloat" is coming from, you still fail to actually give me a single compelling reason for me to believe you. Not that you care and not that you can. Point is all these skills you are talking about and that anyone keeps talking about are ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 2.0 skills (minus the dk ones you mentioned) How many new "bloat" skills did they add in 3.0? Hell list the bloat skills in 2.0, im STILL waiting for you to give me that.

the only ones you list are BfB, Raging Strikes, and Hawk Eye -- TWO jobs have access to all 3 of those. Only 2, any other job has access to 1.

oh and quelling strikes but we wont go there because reasons.