"Please Kick Me..." - Just Take Your Penalty

[LineageRazor]

Signing up on duty finder is a contract. When you run a dungeon using duty finder, you are agreeing to help a party complete an instance in exchange for a reward. The reward varies; it could be roulette tomestone bonus, it could be a chance at relic drops, it could be experience points - regardless of the reward, it is what you get by holding through on your end of the bargain.

If you breach the contract, there is a penalty. That penalty is barely a slap on the wrist - 30 minutes during which you can't queue for a new dungeon - but it's enough to deter some of the more flagrant abuses folks (usually tanks and healers, since they rarely had to put up with 30-60 minute duty finder queue times) have engaged in in the past; for example, a tank dropping out of Sunken Temple of Qarn before the first pull simply because there are some folks out there who have trouble on the first boss. Hey, it might not be true for this group, but as a tank he can find a new group instantly, so why bother to risk it? Because of the 30 minute penalty, a tank has to consider a bit before pulling crap like that, maybe actually TRY the first boss before giving it up as a lost cause. Because they CAN'T just drop out and requeue; they have to wait 30 minutes, like some kind of peasant DPS. Unacceptable!

Requesting vote kick to regain that kind of power isn't cool. If you have a serious reason for wanting to leave, like a real-life emergency, eat the penalty. If you just can't stand the instance you wind up in, then ask yourself whether it's worth the 30 minute penalty to leave or not - I know there a plenty who make this decision on things like Steps of Faith who consider it to be completely worthwhile. (It's silly, of course, the frequency of failure on SoF is close to zero nowadays, but some folks apparently haven't got the memo, or it triggers PTSD for them, or something.)

If things are bad enough that you just can't stand to stay, then they are bad enough that the 30 minute penalty should be nothing to you. If they aren't that bad, then tough it out, get the damn thing over with - it will most likely not take more than 30 minutes anyway. Asking for a kick to avoid the penalty is a coward's solution. Becoming beligerant or unhelpful to ENCOURAGE folks to kick you is grounds for a harrassment charge.

[SuperZay]

Signing up on duty finder is a contract. When you run a dungeon using duty finder, you are agreeing to help a party complete an instance in exchange for a reward. The reward varies; it could be roulette tomestone bonus, it could be a chance at relic drops, it could be experience points - regardless of the reward, it is what you get by holding through on your end of the bargain.

While I generally agree with your point of view, sometimes you feel like it will be impossible or too long (up to timeout) to complete the duty with said party, and you don't have time to wait for another half hour. Yes, it's an MMO, a time consuming game, but that doesn't mean you HAVE to consume more time than necessary. If you can cut some time somehow, like ask the fail party to kick you, there's nothing wrong with it, in fact it's an efficient time management. You have a lot of spare time, be my guest, stay with them, but not all people are like you.

[RiceisNice]

While I generally agree with your point of view, sometimes you feel like it will be impossible or too long (up to timeout) to complete the duty with said party, and you don't have time to wait for another half hour. Yes, it's an MMO, a time consuming game, but that doesn't mean you HAVE to consume more time than necessary. If you can cut some time somehow, like ask the fail party to kick you, there's nothing wrong with it, in fact it's an efficient time management. You have a lot of spare time, be my guest, stay with them, but not all people are like you.

That's what vote abandon is for. And the red flags for a bad party are immediately present anyway, and surprise, people would leave after the first wipe or even upon entering the instance.

[Syrehn]

If you can cut some time somehow, like ask the fail party to kick you, there's nothing wrong with it, in fact it's an efficient time management.

Efficient time management would be planning for a full dungeon run before you even queue up. If the group is truly that bad there is always vote abandon.

[Purrfectstorm]

Efficient time management would be planning for a full dungeon run before you even queue up. If the group is truly that bad there is always vote abandon.

Bad groups always decline vote abandons. If it's the group that's bad, the voting player is outnumbered. Then the group usually starts fighting and ranting about "elitists" who have high DF expectations.

While I agree that one should not have super high expectations of DF, there are some groups that are FAR below average even for DF groups. For example, I recently did a DF Mog HM where the DPS would not stop pushing the king and causing wipes. We wiped about 5 times before I left. I would be surprised if anyone really thinks that is unreasonable; we're not even talking about bad players at that point, but ones who don't listen/won't follow simple instructions (yes it was explained to them beforehand).

What I don't get is...

If "differing playstyles" is a valid reason to kick someone from a group, why then is someone who voluntarily chooses to remove themselves from a group due to differing playstyles penalized for doing so? If someone realizes that they aren't meshing with a party (for example, three people want a speed run and one person doesn't), it's far better that they take the mature route of simply excusing themselves from the situation and trying to find a group that matches what they're looking for than it is for them to stay and try to sabotage the run/get themselves kicked or conveniently "DC." And I don't think they should be punished for doing so because they didn't do anything wrong; they simply happened to be matched with a group who had a different playstyle.

I'm willing to bet there'd be a lot less need for votekick and a lot less bad behavior in general if people were allowed to leave situations in which they were unhappy without being punished for it.

I 100% agree.

Just looking at someone's gear isn't always true indicator of how well they will perform

True, but a person's skill level is constrained by gear level; there are attacks you won't survive and DPS checks you won't pass, no matter how good you are, if you don't have appropriate gear. Furthermore, even a successful run can end up being miserable if things are dying 2-3x slower. All players should keep in mind the team-oriented nature of an MMO and gear appropriately out of respect for their team members.

[Stormrider]

Signing up on duty finder is a contract. When you run a dungeon using duty finder, you are agreeing to help a party complete an instance in exchange for a reward. The reward varies; it could be roulette tomestone bonus, it could be a chance at relic drops, it could be experience points - regardless of the reward, it is what you get by holding through on your end of the bargain.

This +1 /slow clap

[Purrfectstorm]

Signing up on duty finder is a contract. When you run a dungeon using duty finder, you are agreeing to help a party complete an instance in exchange for a reward.

This may be true to some extent (I think the word "contract" is a bit strong), but I don't think that one's individual desires need be tossed out the window. You agree to help the party but I think you are allowed to have reasonable expectations of mutuality: that other players will be respectful, appropriately geared, and decent contributors to the party's success.

If they aren't that bad, then tough it out, get the damn thing over with.

In this case, I think context is everything - we're playing a game, which is meant to be fun.

Yes, vote kicking someone circumvents the penalty timer, but people only ever leave/worry about the penalty timer because they're not having fun (or could be having more fun doing something else). It seems odd to take the stance that people should prevent someone who's not having fun from going to have fun with other people. It's even stranger when you consider that that player can just force DC or, even worse, troll the party in unprovable ways (like pretending to be bad, messing up mechanics, etc.) The vote dismiss seems better for not just the player who wants to go but for everyone (including other parties the player may help in that 30 min window you're trying to keep them from playing).

Penalty timers should never have been a thing. There are other ways of preventing people from fishing for in-progress duties or trying to cherry-pick dungeons. Players should never play a game when it's an unfun chore. Forcing players to play together when they don't want to will just increase the misery of the community. Also, individual players who are being mistreated by a group should have a better out than the prospect of a 30 min lockout from playing. I don't think it's fair to assume that every individual that wants to quit a team is in the wrong.