"Please Kick Me..." - Just Take Your Penalty

[Raiya]

The words "Toxic Community" get thrown around far to much.

Sadly its thrown around simply because its true. Its as bad as WoW's in its own right? Why? Because people are too bloody narky for even the most reasonable of things. Take this issue for example. Someone requests to be kicked for whatever reason and all you get is whinging like take the penalty wah wah wah. Just kick and move on if they at least have the decency to ask, expecially since they were DECENT enough to ask than just outright logoff. My point is vindicated by the fact that people get pissy over the issue and in the end if you want out without the pointless penalty that blocks everything they gotta log off until they get out because people wont just kick em and be done with it. Less drama, quicker replacement.

It's not the game's fault you didn't get a duty you wanted or the run isn't going as smooth as you'd like and no one is forcing you to stay in those runs, you can gracefully bow out.

After reading what you said about how you log off/afk to force a kick from your party it shows that it's not the community that's toxic but mindset's like the one you demonstrated.

It is if expecially when your stuck for time. Its also a problem that newbies give a paltry bonus instead of something worthwhile for the extra time, Ie if you help a newbie your dungeon bonus should be DOUBLED to compensate for the fact that it can take much longer to finish the dungeon with a newer person. (ie double the exp or double the poetic/law tomes for example) Current system is counterproducitive and if your forced to restart a trial at the beginning repeatedly after fighting for the best part of 10min it just gets downright exhaustive. Because these trials in many cases are not fun and being done to death they feel more like hassle and work which is the opposite of what people play games like this for. They just want it done and out of the way and going round in circles or taking all day on something that shouldnt take so long only adds to the frustration.

As for game design do people look for kicks on garuda/ifrit/moogle for example? Rarely if ever expecially because even if the group is underpowered your unlikely to get stuck in a wipe cycle. The ones you most likely will get someone requesting a kick is Ravana/Bismark/Steps of Ragequit for the simple reason that if the group is slow your there all day and people have had such a bad time with that theyll at best give it one shot or thats it theyre quitting and not taking a penalty because others cant or wont play properly. This is usually not because people are new either but because theyre just being dense its a regular pattern ive seen when DF groups arent communication or REFUSING to.

Raiya I have a legitimate question for you since you're someone who admits to d/c'ing/afk'ing to force their party to kick you. Do you think you would be less likely to behave in this manner if a vote kick resulted in your character receiving a 30 minute penalty timer or equivalent repercussion?

Meaningless question as its not going to happen expecially with the way it can be abused for those that legitimately get D/C'd. Would be more likely to just leave if the penalty were reset to just 15min like it was before they got the bright idea to increase it to 30min. I'd just leave as well if there was no penalty. Better way to get people to stay is to make it worthwhile for the extra time. Having to do a duty that's a boring grind for twice as long as it should take should at least give something back to offset the extra time.

Thanks for posting this so that I know who you are if I ever get you in one of my groups. Might want to re-think that behavior, since if you're a DPS in my group, you force-dc because you don't like the roulette/group, and I think we can complete without your slot, I'll ask that the team doesn't boot you. Yet, if you had asked to be kicked and stated that you don't like the duty and don't think we can complete it, I might just have kicked you.

--Erim Nelhah

Your unlikely to remember me expecially since I'm barely playing these days anyways. That and the likelyhood of running into me is negligable considering the sheer size of the playerbase :P Besides theres nothing to rethink here you could go without me IF i was on DPS but that means your wasting yout OWN time instead since your taking longer to do something just out of pure spite. Faulty logic there, its quicker to replace and get another DPS which you know is practically instant replacement and try the duty with them but of course if the group sucks which may or many not be something that your at fault over they can simply walk away since people who join dutys in progress dont get penaltys if they dont like the group and just feel like leaving without penalty. This might be the REAL reason some people are getting whiny over this :P

How is it the game's fault that you didn't get what you wanted? If you want to avoid certain dungeons or trials, then pick the ones you want manually. If you want a flawless run every time, then get some friends with you.

Most of the problem's relate to the fact that you have to do roulettes for exp and that. The most likely problem's for this is the trial roulette and getting the likes of Steps of Ragequit/Bismark/Ravana which take a long time to take down and are the most likely ones for getting stuck in a wipe loop on. When its better to quit/dc till kicked than keep trying thats a problem with the way the game is set. As i've said you should get a boosted bonus if it takes longer to complete these dungeons/trials than it normally takes (over 15m for trials /over 40min for dungeons)

[Zari]

Yeah tbh if someone asks to be kicked I probably wouldnt kick them
Hell i left a party for the first time today and I just didn't care, I would eat the 30 min penalty if it meant not having to deal with that hopeless group for another 30 min.

[Adire]

Be careful people.

A while back I saw a premade of 2 DPS ask to be kicked. The healer and I refused, and they kicked the healer even though I voted No.

If they demand to be kicked and they're a premade, and you refuse, you may very well end up being kicked yourself.

Luckily most of the time when I see this, it's only one person asking to be kicked, so they're at the mercy of the group.

[RiceisNice]

Sadly its thrown around simply because its true. Its as bad as WoW's in its own right? Why? Because people are too bloody narky for even the most reasonable of things. Take this issue for example. Someone requests to be kicked for whatever reason and all you get is whinging like take the penalty wah wah wah. Just kick and move on if they at least have the decency to ask, expecially since they were DECENT enough to ask than just outright logoff. My point is vindicated by the fact that people get pissy over the issue and in the end if you want out without the pointless penalty that blocks everything they gotta log off until they get out because people wont just kick em and be done with it. Less drama, quicker replacement.

Because they're the toxic ones for not wanting you to dodge out of a instance that you don't like and putting the burden of replacements on them. And your "point" is that you're going to log off until they kick you.

Most of the problem's relate to the fact that you have to do roulettes for exp and that. The most likely problem's for this is the trial roulette and getting the likes of Steps of Ragequit/Bismark/Ravana which take a long time to take down and are the most likely ones for getting stuck in a wipe loop on. When its better to quit/dc till kicked than keep trying thats a problem with the way the game is set. As i've said you should get a boosted bonus if it takes longer to complete these dungeons/trials than it normally takes (over 15m for trials /over 40min for dungeons)

If you're not prepared for what trial roulette can give you, then don't queue for it. Honestly, you're literally trying to cherry pick isntances you don't want in a setting where it's supposed to give you a random one. Likewise for putting up with the possible players you can run into too,.

Be careful people.

A while back I saw a premade of 2 DPS ask to be kicked. The healer and I refused, and they kicked the healer even though I voted No.

If they demand to be kicked and they're a premade, and you refuse, you may very well end up being kicked yourself.

Luckily most of the time when I see this, it's only one person asking to be kicked, so they're at the mercy of the group.

Collectively report them. Especially if they mentioned this in chat log, GMs can easily bring it up to take a look, doubly so if you can provide them the time as well. These people are literally the worse and they'll do anything to circumvent a leaving penalty.

[Adire]

Shame I didn't report them. This happened several months ago. So it's too late now, don't even remember their names.

Seeing GMs reply that they can't do anything because of a difference in playstyles and such sapped my motivation to report people as well.

It's fine though, I've learned my lesson

If I know there's a premade, start a kick on them ASAP if they're causing any problems. I'd recommend others do the same as well, because the vote kick feature has a Yes bias. If it's 2 vs 2 people, whoever starts the kick first wins.

The person being voted on does not get a vote but the person starting the vote gets an automatic Yes...so, yeah.

[Raiya]

Because they're the toxic ones for not wanting you to dodge out of a instance that you don't like and putting the burden of replacements on them. And your "point" is that you're going to log off until they kick you.

Theres no burden on you for simply replacing them. If anything your placing the burden on yourself for not taking the more efficient option of just getting someone else that wants to play instead of trying to make someone play when they dont have the will patience or time for it. Just deal with it and get someone else if they dont want to play and be done with it instead of dragging it out for the sake of spite or because you think you can make someone play when they dont want to.

If you're not prepared for what trial roulette can give you, then don't queue for it. Honestly, you're literally trying to cherry pick isntances you don't want in a setting where it's supposed to give you a random one. Likewise for putting up with the possible players you can run into too.

Most people will give it one shot but if your not even making it past the DPS check on bismark for example or people keep FALLING DOWN THE WELL on Ravana/Titan its not worth it. Most people should give it one attempt anyways since you cant kick anyone for the 1st 5min of a trial/dungeon. Its the wipe loop that has people doing this at least on the longer ones.

[RiceisNice]

Theres no burden on you for simply replacing them. If anything your placing the burden on yourself for not taking the more efficient option of just getting someone else that wants to play instead of trying to make someone play when they dont have the will patience or time for it. Just deal with it and get someone else if they dont want to play and be done with it instead of dragging it out for the sake of spite or because you think you can make someone play when they dont want to.

>There is if it is a healer or especially a tank. And I can say the exact same thing about the other person in regards to the bolded part, except the kick function is time limited and you're practically SoL with your mindset.

>If a run is not worth it, then leave. No one is forcing you to stay. It's a botched trial roulette, take the penalty and do something else, or don't queue up for trial at all if the risk of a 30 minute lock out is that detrimental to you because of bad players.

You're literally asking to cheat out of a penalty for leaving a run because you don't like the players or the dungeon you've gotten (when it was put in there in the first place to discourage that). If you don't like that, then honstly, solo-queuing roulette isn't for you.

Shame I didn't report them. This happened several months ago. So it's too late now, don't even remember their names.

Seeing GMs reply that they can't do anything because of a difference in playstyles and such sapped my motivation to report people as well.

It's fine though, I've learned my lesson

If I know there's a premade, start a kick on them ASAP if they're causing any problems. I'd recommend others do the same as well, because the vote kick feature has a Yes bias. If it's 2 vs 2 people, whoever starts the kick first wins.

The person being voted on does not get a vote but the person starting the vote gets an automatic Yes...so, yeah.

It's not a "playstyle" difference if they're verbally announcing that they're going to do nothing just so you can kick them (to dodge the 30 minute penalty), or abuse their vote kick in order to leave and dodge the penalty. That's player harassment and its reportable. "playstyle" difference would be people who play badly (purposely or not) and slowing down the party...which unfortunately means that they can kick you for playing bad, but only if they're vocal about it (if it was strictly behind-the-scenes like Fc or linkshell chat, there's no communication within the party and it's safe to assume that they're abusing vote kick)

[Raiya]

>There is if it is a healer or especially a tank. And I can say the exact same thing about the other person in regards to the bolded part, except the kick function is time limited and you're practically SoL with your mindset.

You unlikely to gonna have to kick someone more than once every 4hrs under any circumstance and others can initiate a kick too. Also theres nothing wrong with my mindset tyvm I only play now and again anyways since ironically FFXI is more fun than this these days.

>If a run is not worth it, then leave. No one is forcing you to stay. It's a botched trial roulette, take the penalty and do something else, or don't queue up for trial at all if the risk of a 30 minute lock out is that detrimental to you because of bad players.

Why should someone take a penalty if the group sucks? Why have a penalty at all tbh it obviously isnt working and is leading to other issues like this. Lets be honest why take a penalty of 30min when you can d/c and be out quicker. By all accounts if someone wants to leave and asks you to kick them and your refusing in a way you are forcing them to stay expecially in most cases its because the group sucks or is on the wipe loop. Your saying leave and do something else but you forget apart from fates and maybe crafting most stuff is IN trials and you can only access it tru the duty finder. You USED to be able to leave a dungeon and go on a raid regardless of wether you were on a penalty or not if someone else was PT leader and initiated the group entry until SE changed that. Thats probably why people are requesting kicks as well.

You're literally asking to cheat out of a penalty for leaving a run because you don't like the players or the dungeon you've gotten (when it was put in there in the first place to discourage that). If you don't like that, then honstly, solo-queuing roulette isn't for you.

Lets be honest here the penalty doesnt do squat. It doesnt make them stay and kicking them is quicker than this drama. If theyre healer or tank you can nearly be sure of a quick replacement. Your lucky if you can proceed much without a tank and your boned outright without a healer. As for DPS you can proceed with one less DPS but it can take so long your wasting your own time when its faster to just get someone in who will play.

[Adire]

It's not a "playstyle" difference if they're verbally announcing that they're going to do nothing just so you can kick them (to dodge the 30 minute penalty), or abuse their vote kick in order to leave and dodge the penalty. That's player harassment and its reportable. "playstyle" difference would be people who play badly (purposely or not) and slowing down the party...which unfortunately means that they can kick you for playing bad, but only if they're vocal about it (if it was strictly behind-the-scenes like Fc or linkshell chat, there's no communication within the party and it's safe to assume that they're abusing vote kick)

Ehh...they've said they can't/won't do anything about player disputes either.

Proof:



So yeah, hard for me to find the motivation to report people when the GMs say they can't really help you for anything.

[RiceisNice]

Ehh...they've said they can't/won't do anything about player disputes either.

Proof:


So yeah, hard for me to find the motivation to report people when the GMs say they can't really help you for anything.

If they kicked you without a word (talking behind your backs, or theres no tracable party log), it's not a player dispute because there's nothing disputed. If they threatened to kick you, or otherwise hold you/the party hostage with intent to waste their time/troll, it's clear cut player harassment, not a player dispute because they've made their intention clear on the chat log.

You unlikely to gonna have to kick someone more than once every 4hrs under any circumstance and others can initiate a kick too. Also theres nothing wrong with my mindset tyvm I only play now and again anyways since ironically FFXI is more fun than this these days.

Between people asking me for kicks, people who DC and never come back, and people who are downright unsavory, you'd be surprised. Especially if you're one who does roulettes frequently for exp or otherwise duty finder for a specific dungeon.

]Why should someone take a penalty if the group sucks? Why have a penalty at all tbh it obviously isnt working and is leading to other issues like this. Lets be honest why take a penalty of 30min when you can d/c and be out quicker. By all accounts if someone wants to leave and asks you to kick them and your refusing in a way you are forcing them to stay expecially in most cases its because the group sucks or is on the wipe loop. Your saying leave and do something else but you forget apart from fates and maybe crafting most stuff is IN trials and you can only access it tru the duty finder. You USED to be able to leave a dungeon and go on a raid regardless of wether you were on a penalty or not if someone else was PT leader and initiated the group entry until SE changed that. Thats probably why people are requesting kicks as well.

Because you quite literally, threw caution into the wind and signed up to be placed with random players. Only you don't like the results and you don't want to accept the consequences as such. What is this "current penalty" thats still causing the issues and "leading to issues like this"? What you're doing is precisely why penalties are set in place, and you're still trying to circumvent it.

No reasonable person would ever take a 30 minute penalty and no penalty if given the chance. What they don't consider is how it negatively affects the party they're in, except they don't get any repercussions to it. If people could leave without a penalty, then there's no damned point to even making the concept of a roulette, just put the daily bonus to any dungeon.

And no, they aren't forcing you to stay, because you can still, infact, hit the leave button and leave the instance.. I can't even understand your second half of the paragraph there or what point you're trying to make. You don't ever need trials outside of the roulette or first time clear for story reasons.

Oh, and you can still can leave a dungeon and go on a savage raid, because it's not using duty finder.