Defilberating the Dead Horse

[Alysrea]

You may like the idea of waiting (literally just waiting most of the time) several months to gear a couple of craft classes, then longer still to make i180 crafted gear (by this point everyone will be in full i200+ and i180 would be trash by comparison), but many of us hate this new system.

Isn't the idea of it being an endgame is that is something to work towards?, I don't see raiders having the mentality that there is no point getting Savage Alexander gear because they wont be part of the first percentile to clear it and that there will eventually be another raid making the current gear pointless.

To give the items value things need to be hard to obtain, while there is most certainly room for improvement in terms of how rewarding the system feels and how often we feel rewarded, I think it has achieved its goal of being an "end game" activity for hardcore crafters.

[Yeldir]

I think it has achieved its goal of being an "end game" activity for hardcore crafters.

Imagine, if you will, that there was no savage alexander, and no talk of any specific raid on the horizon, besides players assuring eachother that of course there would be more raids, some day. Imagine all of these players kitting themselves out in Esoteric gear over the course of many, many weeks, and having absolutely nothing to do with it.

That is exactly what is going on with crafting, right now. The end state is a bunch of guys in AF with nothing to craft with it besides more AF for other crafters and gatherers. The hideous reality is that AF is worthless, at present. It does absolutely nothing and there is no reason to get it, besides "well it might be useful some day".

It might not, actually. The 180 DoW/DoM player craftable armor may be the new and fixed model for crafted PVE gear. That's a deathblow.

[Chrolo]

But isnt that the case with everything in the game? Why do people keep raiding alexander savage after having beaten it once? To gear up, but whats the gear fir if you can already beat it with your old set. (talking bout the future, im aware that nobody has actually beaten it yet past 2)

[Alysrea]

I understand what you are saying Yeldir, but that is how vertical progression works, We achieve something so that we are ready for the next thing to be achieved even if it does not exist yet, that is the entire back bone of the contemporary MMO concept.
But the fact remains the reality is, that the Crafting Scripts system isn't the problem honestly, the current lack of recipes and them withholding recipes to slow raiders down is and just the same as you I think a lack of recipes will always be a frustrating issue and these are the issues we should be front-lining when we make our complaints and requests.

You can call me dumb, but I do expect more recipes to come in the same way that Since the expansion release Raiders have had Leveling gear > Dungeon gear > Law gear > Upgraded law gear > Alex normal gear > Esoteric Gear > Upgraded Eso/ Savage gear
We too will get more progression so far we have only had a few stages Leveling > Chimerical > AF > ???.
Just give it time, We can see by the NPC'd token gear that they want gearing up to take time, Stay strong Crafter

[Hanmerreborn]

words

Why do people keep acting like raiding and crafting tokens are even remotely in the same universe?

You want a piece of gear from Alexander normal. You can run it for as many times as you like until you win The 4 tokens you want.

Crafting you get one or two attempts every week to make something that\\'s barely better than the current gear.

To raid, you need a single character at 60 with the correct ilvl, obtained through only a time investment (as law is not capped).

To make red scripts, you need to have multiple 60 crafters and gatherers, all locked behind multiple gates to progress (master book, folklore, gear, and access through script bought materials).

raiding gear has unique looks.

Crafting gear is reskins

[Alysrea]

Crafting AF is not Reskin
And it has not always been the case that Crafted gear is a reskin we have previously seen a lot of unique gear, as I stated earlier on I think this is a flaw with a lack of Recipes more than a Script issue.
And you have unlimited attempts at everything as long as their is a supply and there eventually will be, That is not to say I think it is fair for people to be able to just buy everything they need and have it all, But Raiders can't buy additional times at getting loot each week because there will never be a supply, We actually have it better in that regards.

I will agree that the game is centered around having all crafts at 60 and it is something they should continue to look into.

To raid, you need a single character at 60 with the correct ilvl, obtained through only a time investment (as law is not capped).

Getting the correct Ilvl is also part of their grind, which is Similar to getting our grind with tokens, while you are right Law is not capped, Esoterics Is ( blue Scripts would be Like Law and Red scripts like Esoterics)

I know the two systems are not Equivalent I was not trying to imply they function the same way, I was giving an example of the developers mind set when planning out progress for players and suggesting that we can see trends that they will possibly use similar time based gating on the way they have released content for us.

[Vicktem]

Heres the problem for me. (Omnicrafter since before 1.23 - 3.X)

Crafting for me has always been a side activity to kill some time. For me it was always about being self sufficient and maybe make some money on the side. As well as being able to make things for people that they'd like to have. The system in the 2.X series of updates were fine for both casual and hardcore crafters alike. The casual crafters could work on their masterbooks at their pace and the hardcore crafters could work at their pace at the cost of some gil. They both got to their respective goals within a time-frame that suited them. That is where the problem comes into play for the 3.X updates.

As of 3.X all crafted and gatherer gear is locked behind a weekly cap. I wont get into the fact that the crafted gear is completely locked behind a gatherer class, which I assume most have realized this as a major flaw. Now to attempt a synth of each piece of gear for a respective crafter you need to max out red scrips for both gatherer and crafter for 2-3 weeks. Then attempt the synths, which are not easy, only to craft an item that you then have to sink gil into. The stats at the end are barely above that of the sets a casual can get in a slightly longer time-frame. Then you can use that new gear you just spent weeks grinding to make useless products for the populace that will end up sitting on the market board for weeks on end, or continue to work on another 2-3 week grind for your next set.

I hope they change this system. I've been in love with crafting in this game for years and I am seriously thinking about throwing in the towel. If history is any indication, I'll just wait out the storm and by the time new sets roll around in 4-6 months I can get all this gear in a week and not lift a finger.

I wish they would take the favor system out of red scrips and give gatherers something to use blue scrips on in the long run. Then take the crafting mats out of red scrips and put them back into dungeons or GC like they've been doing in the past. Thus letting the hardcore players grind out the sets they want, even if there is nothing to craft (its all about being a completionist), while also letting the more casual audience get their sets as well with only a longer grind instead of spending gil.

[Alysrea]

I wish they would take the favor system out of red scrips and give gatherers something to use blue scrips on in the long run. Then take the crafting mats out of red scrips and put them back into dungeons or GC like they've been doing in the past. Thus letting the hardcore players grind out the sets they want, even if there is nothing to craft (its all about being a completionist), while also letting the more casual audience get their sets as well with only a longer grind instead of spending gil.

What items would you want to be from blue scripts for gatherers?, if we are getting drops from dungeons and not gatherers what do gatherers do? how do they make money and who are they gathering for?

[Vicktem]

What items would you want to be from blue scripts for gatherers?, if we are getting drops from dungeons and not gatherer's what do they do? how do they make money and who are they gathering for?

I was throwing around an idea where the favor items could be used for new exclusive raid food/potions/elixir materials. Allows gatherers to make some gil off the raiders and crafters, since the raid gear is of no use. Also allows the gatherer mains to save red scrips for their sets.

[Alysrea]

I was throwing around an idea where the favor items could be used for new exclusive raid food/potions/elixir materials. Allows gatherers to make a some gil off the raiders and crafters, since the gear is of no use. Also allows the gatherer mains to save red scrips for their sets.

I think this is an interesting idea and its nice to see some positive thought towards changes and not just a blanket statement of things feeling bad.