Defilberating the Dead Horse

[Seyb]

Why should I respect developers whose likely intention is to turn us into cash cows? And why should I respect crafters who support that? Also, I have added plenty to the discussion of this system including ways to fix it - just not in this thread because I'm tired of explaining why this is abysmal.

Disrespect because of a 'likely intention'? Wow... Then make your voice even more heard by unsubbing.

I have stated it in other threads, too. You don't need any 3.05 gear for the current crafts. So just wait it out (by unsubbing?).

I, too, hope there will be changes, so non omnicrafters can get their scrips more easily or at least a lot more cheaply. It should never be such a gil sink. But S-E never had it right with the gil sinks. Look at scarebearz, boasting his 2300mils. He drives our average gil per player up high, which seems to be what the devs look at (median anyone?).

[Aeyis]

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Everyone knows the system it is a total f***up

That's correct.

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If you don't want to add anything to the conversation, don't post at all.

And so is this.

You are very disrespectful to fellow crafters that make the best out of the system AND the devs that created it.

The ones making the best out of this system are also the ones most vehemently stating just how FUBAR'd the system is.
Because you know, we actually grinded the favors and made the items.

[Seyb]

That's correct.


And so is this.


The ones making the best out of this system are also the ones most vehemently stating just how FUBAR'd the system is.
Because you know, we actually grinded the favors and made the items.

Go and edit your edit of my quote. How low can you get? *biggest facepalm in the world*

I don't see you making the best of it. I see you harassing people who don't follow your ideas.
Who is 'we'? Oh yes, eveyone in the world, because you say so.

[Alysrea]

Alright, here's a generic message because I'm getting tired of repeating stuff.

Anyone who defends this system is either thick in the head, completely uninformed, or a troll. Fact. If you are defending, you are one of those three.

There is no fun to be had.
There is no money to be made.
There is only the grind to craft useless gear that will never sell.

Posts like this are the worst, Saying "There is no fun to be had" is just dumb, The system that is Crafting has not changed at all, we use 90% of the same skills we used in 2.XX, The only thing that has changed is profitability, If you think crafting currently is not fun. Guess what YOU NEVER ENJOYED CRAFTING, You Sir enjoyed making money.

Crafting and Making money are not the same thing. So don't confuse the two things when you try to explain your problems.
You are entitled to Lament the lack of opportunity to make money, I think it is reasonable to do so, But please focus your point on your real problems.

[scarebearz]

Crafting and Making money are not the same thing. So don't confuse the two things when you try to explain your problems.

Some like the challange of crafting new harder crafts for people, if hardly anyone can get the mats due to cost, then it is no fun.

Apart from the new 2* crafts, the other stuff is pretty much all macro-able and no challange at all.

[Alysrea]

Some like the challange of crafting new harder crafts for people, if hardly anyone can get the mats due to cost, then it is no fun.

Apart from the new 2* crafts, the other stuff is pretty much all macro-able and no challange at all.

That is no different from before though in terms of macros and challenge, Yes material availability is slower and less available then before that just mean things will take time.

Likewise to you. Darth may be overdramatic but he's not wrong either. You want to know why I think crafting isn't fun? Because this:



Look at all that supply! I could craft all of ... 0 items with this! And I don't forsee this getting any better next week, or even two weeks from now. Who cares about profit when we can barely even craft to begin with?

While it is sad that you can't access all the items instantly off the market board at this time since they are newly available items, the main reason there is hardly any items on the market board is because those who can gather them are using them for their own crafting, which I don't think there is a problem with that, in time there will be more materials when people no longer need to make their own items and will sell their excess this is the case in most crafting, Gather for yourself before you gather for others.
In time you will get access to being able to make the items and I believe you will enjoy and feel a sense accomplishment for doing so, please don't get discouraged and continue to look forward to that day.

[scarebearz]

That is no different from before though in terms of macros and challenge, Yes material availability is slower and less available then before that just mean things will take time.



While it is sad that you can't access all the items instantly off the market board at this time since they are newly available items, the main reason there is hardly any items on the market board is because those who can gather them are using them for their own crafting, which I don't think there is a problem with that, in time there will be more materials when people no longer need to make their own items and will sell their excess this is the case in most crafting, Gather for yourself before you gather for others.
In time you will get access to being able to make the items and I believe you will enjoy and feel a sense accomplishment for doing so, please don't get discouraged and continue to look forward to that day.

You may like the idea of waiting (literally just waiting most of the time) several months to gear a couple of craft classes, then longer still to make i180 crafted gear (by this point everyone will be in full i200+ and i180 would be trash by comparison), but many of us hate this new system.

[Lyrinn]

Posts like this are the worst, Saying "There is no fun to be had" is just dumb, The system that is Crafting has not changed at all, we use 90% of the same skills we used in 2.XX, The only thing that has changed is profitability, If you think crafting currently is not fun. Guess what YOU NEVER ENJOYED CRAFTING, You Sir enjoyed making money.

Crafting and Making money are not the same thing. So don't confuse the two things when you try to explain your problems.

Likewise to you. Darth may be overdramatic but he's not wrong either. You want to know why I think crafting isn't fun? Because this:



Look at all that supply! I could craft all of ... 0 items with this! And I don't forsee this getting any better next week, or even two weeks from now. Who cares about profit when we can barely even craft to begin with?

[Ibi]

You guys do realize that crafting has always been 20 ilevels behind 'poetic' gear, right? The main difference here is that we don't have accessories, but unless -all of you made money by selling accessories- back then, which I doubt just judging by Gilgamesh's old market, losing i180 accesories isn't the end of all time.

When i90 was the cap? i70 was the craft. i110? i90.

i130? You guessed it; i110. You are always losing primary stats in crafting selection for the goal of more substats that make up for it. For Tanking classes this might be a little unacceptable because 'moar defense', but everyone else? You still got a market, especially on belt, boots, pants, and helmet where you're sacrificing less main stats for the same number of materia slots. People are not going to be in full 200 for a while. They won't be in 210 for even longer.

When i90 was the cap, you could gear up through philosophy (i70) or the weekly capped myth (i90). Melded i70 was superior to philosophy (same primary stats, more secondary stats), so it was always worth wearing while acquiring i90 if you could afford it.

When i110 was the cap, you could gear up through myth (i90) or the weekly capped soldiery (i100, upgraded to i110 if you raided). Melded i90 was superior to myth (same primary stats, more secondary stats), and occasionally a viable alternative to soldiery (lower primary stats, more secondary stats), so, again, it was always worth wearing while acquiring i100/110 if you could afford it.

When i130 was the cap, you could gear up through soldiery (i100, upgraded to i110) or the weekly capped poetics (i120, upgraded to i130 if you raided). Melded i110 was superior to soldiery (same primary stats, more secondary stats), and occasionally a viable alternative to poetics (lower primary stats, more secondary stats), so, once again, it was always worth wearing while acquiring i120/130 if you could afford it.

Now, i210 is the cap. You can gear up through Law (i170, upgraded to i180), weekly capped Esoterics (i200, upgraded to i210 if you're a raider), or Alexander (i190). Melded i180 is superior to Law (same primary stats, more secondary stats), but because primary stat weights (as compared to secondary stats) are much higher in 3.0 than they were in 2.x, it's rarely a viable alternative to i190, and never a viable alternative to i200.

tl;dr:

- There's now a tier of gear available between the crafted gear and raid/weekly-limited tomes right from the start
- Primary stat weights being higher mean that crafted gear is considerably less competitive with higher ilvl gear than it was in the past

[Roth_Trailfinder]

Now, i210 is the cap. You can gear up through Law (i170, upgraded to i180), weekly capped Esoterics (i200, upgraded to i210 if you're a raider), or Alexander (i190). Melded i180 is superior to Law (same primary stats, more secondary stats), but because primary stat weights (as compared to secondary stats) are much higher in 3.0 than they were in 2.x, it's rarely a viable alternative to i190, and never a viable alternative to i200.

Has the parsing been done to determine the new stat weights? That's one of the things I've been waiting to see ...