Defilberating the Dead Horse

[Ibi]

Has the parsing been done to determine the new stat weights? That's one of the things I've been waiting to see ...

DRG stat weights, per this post, indicate ratios between 1:6 and 1:10. There will be variance from one job to another, obviously, but nothing like the 1:3 we were seeing in 2.x.

[Snugglebutt]

Alright, here's a generic message because I'm getting tired of repeating stuff.

Anyone who defends this system is either thick in the head, completely uninformed, or a troll.

There is a difference between saying the system has it's flaws and the extreme over-dramatization you and others are using. The so called people you claim are defending it are actually not defending it in the way you imply as there is not a single one including myself who claims the system is either perfect of not in need of fixing. But what the more reasonable, rational and sensible people whom you claim are defending it are trying to do is separate the bullshit hyperbole and exaggerations from the actual facts. Hyperbole like there is no fun to be had, no money to be made, crafting is dead, no one is crafting, economy is destroyed, everyone agrees with you unless they are stupid or trolls, also my personal favorite coming directly from you...that SE is paying me to argue with you. You need to take a step back and regain some self control especially over your emotions and then apply some common sense to the issues and the possible solutions.

Seyb has it right, your not stating facts with such comments like you made earlier in this thread though I personally think he does not go far enough in that your not only stating your opinion but your exaggerating that opinion because you think it adds more weight to your arguments perhaps unaware your making it hyperbolic. The fact is SE will not make knee jerk reactions and dramatic changes just because you choose to over-dramatize the issues. They will do as I said earlier which is make minor adjustments and slight balancing alterations over time until they are happy with the outcome like they always have done in the past and they will take their time to evaluate the situation instead of making knee jerk reactions to the hyperbole being spread around these forums by some here. They certainly wont fire someone over the introduction of red scripts which one of your friends has asked them to do plus it is so unlikely that SE will do another drastic Crafting Reborn type thing before the next expansion comes out so pinning your hopes on such would not work out well.

Adjustments and balancing of skills usefulness, timer adjustments maybe, minor cap rate rise, lowering cost of materials from red scripts etc are the sort of things SE will be looking at plus over time increasing the amount of recipes for each craft...not removal of the red script system or removal of the existence of a cap rate and not adding BiS recipes to crafting as SE have been pretty clear about their stance on that for quite some time. So if you hope for one of those three latter things which I know for a fact you do since have said as much in other threads then you should adjust your expectations else I have a very strong feeling your going to be permanently disappointed. You also actually have a better chance of SE listening to you if you drop the hyperbole, exaggerations and over-dramatization of the issues...they will want actual facts and monitoring of in-game data plus reasonable, sensible and rational ideas and as such your not doing your cause any justice due to how your expressing your concerns.

EDIT

Since I hit my post limit I will leave this here as my last response for the day.

Is there a new forum achievement for using the term hyperbole 1000 times or something? xD

I also used the words "So", "You" and "Balancing" plus lots more many times. Perhaps SE could reward me with an in-game item if such an achievement you mentioned were to exist. The quantity of specific words being used was relative to how long my post was and how much depth I went into in explaining myself. Did I repeat one or more words more than you would of liked? Maybe but I am not going to worry about it.

[scarebearz]

There is a difference between saying the system has it's flaws and the extreme over-dramatization you and others are using. The so called people you claim are defending it are actually not defending it in the way you imply as there is not a single one including myself who claims the system is either perfect of not in need of fixing. But what the more reasonable, rational and sensible people whom you claim are defending it are trying to do is separate the bullshit hyperbole and exaggerations from the actual facts. Hyperbole like there is no fun to be had, no money to be made, crafting is dead, no one is crafting, economy is destroyed, everyone agrees with you unless they are stupid or trolls, also my personal favorite coming directly from you...that SE is paying me to argue with you. You need to take a step back and regain some self control especially over your emotions and then apply some common sense to the issues and the possible solutions.

Seyb has it right, your not stating facts with such comments like you made earlier in this thread though I personally think he does not go far enough in that your not only stating your opinion but your exaggerating that opinion because you think it adds more weight to your arguments perhaps unaware your making it hyperbolic. The fact is SE will not make knee jerk reactions and dramatic changes just because you choose to over-dramatize the issues. They will do as I said earlier which is make minor adjustments and slight balancing alterations over time until they are happy with the outcome like they always have done in the past and they will take their time to evaluate the situation instead of making knee jerk reactions to the hyperbole being spread around these forums by some here. They certainly wont fire someone over the introduction of red scripts which one of your friends has asked them to do plus it is so unlikely that SE will do another drastic Crafting Reborn type thing before the next expansion comes out so pinning your hopes on such would not work out well.

Adjustments and balancing of skills usefulness, timer adjustments maybe, minor cap rate rise, lowering cost of materials from red scripts etc are the sort of things SE will be looking at plus over time increasing the amount of recipes for each craft...not removal of the red script system or removal of the existence of a cap rate and not adding BiS recipes to crafting as SE have been pretty clear about their stance on that for quite some time. So if you hope for one of those three latter things which I know for a fact you do since have said as much in other threads then you should adjust your expectations else I have a very strong feeling your going to be permanently disappointed. You also actually have a better chance of SE listening to you if you drop the hyperbole, exaggerations and over-dramatization of the issues...they will want actual facts and monitoring of in-game data plus reasonable, sensible and rational ideas and as such our not doing your cause any justice due to how your expressing your concerns.

Is there a new forum achievement for using the term hyperbole 1000 times or something? xD

[XLauncher]

I've been reading this thread and I am just laughing my ass off at someone trying to hold gil over scarebearz's head.

[XLauncher]

Except, the entire point of this system, supposedly, was to foster interdependence among crafters.

[Alysrea]

Except, the entire point of this system, supposedly, was to foster interdependence among crafters.

I think it will take more than a few days to see if the system fails in this regard or not, I know a lot of crafters and gatherers who are willing to sell materials and completed items at a point, but are currently holding onto tokens until more information is found out about the system to optimize the spending of their tokens.

The system might very well fail, I am not trying to defend the state of the game I just want to see people properly articulate the reasons why they don't like things currently.
Focus more on reasons than gut reactions.

[Chrolo]

But isnt that the case with everything in the game? Why do people keep raiding alexander savage after having beaten it once? To gear up, but whats the gear fir if you can already beat it with your old set. (talking bout the future, im aware that nobody has actually beaten it yet past 2)

[Hanmerreborn]

words

Why do people keep acting like raiding and crafting tokens are even remotely in the same universe?

You want a piece of gear from Alexander normal. You can run it for as many times as you like until you win The 4 tokens you want.

Crafting you get one or two attempts every week to make something that\\'s barely better than the current gear.

To raid, you need a single character at 60 with the correct ilvl, obtained through only a time investment (as law is not capped).

To make red scripts, you need to have multiple 60 crafters and gatherers, all locked behind multiple gates to progress (master book, folklore, gear, and access through script bought materials).

raiding gear has unique looks.

Crafting gear is reskins

[Alysrea]

Crafting AF is not Reskin
And it has not always been the case that Crafted gear is a reskin we have previously seen a lot of unique gear, as I stated earlier on I think this is a flaw with a lack of Recipes more than a Script issue.
And you have unlimited attempts at everything as long as their is a supply and there eventually will be, That is not to say I think it is fair for people to be able to just buy everything they need and have it all, But Raiders can't buy additional times at getting loot each week because there will never be a supply, We actually have it better in that regards.

I will agree that the game is centered around having all crafts at 60 and it is something they should continue to look into.

To raid, you need a single character at 60 with the correct ilvl, obtained through only a time investment (as law is not capped).

Getting the correct Ilvl is also part of their grind, which is Similar to getting our grind with tokens, while you are right Law is not capped, Esoterics Is ( blue Scripts would be Like Law and Red scripts like Esoterics)

I know the two systems are not Equivalent I was not trying to imply they function the same way, I was giving an example of the developers mind set when planning out progress for players and suggesting that we can see trends that they will possibly use similar time based gating on the way they have released content for us.

[Vicktem]

Heres the problem for me. (Omnicrafter since before 1.23 - 3.X)

Crafting for me has always been a side activity to kill some time. For me it was always about being self sufficient and maybe make some money on the side. As well as being able to make things for people that they'd like to have. The system in the 2.X series of updates were fine for both casual and hardcore crafters alike. The casual crafters could work on their masterbooks at their pace and the hardcore crafters could work at their pace at the cost of some gil. They both got to their respective goals within a time-frame that suited them. That is where the problem comes into play for the 3.X updates.

As of 3.X all crafted and gatherer gear is locked behind a weekly cap. I wont get into the fact that the crafted gear is completely locked behind a gatherer class, which I assume most have realized this as a major flaw. Now to attempt a synth of each piece of gear for a respective crafter you need to max out red scrips for both gatherer and crafter for 2-3 weeks. Then attempt the synths, which are not easy, only to craft an item that you then have to sink gil into. The stats at the end are barely above that of the sets a casual can get in a slightly longer time-frame. Then you can use that new gear you just spent weeks grinding to make useless products for the populace that will end up sitting on the market board for weeks on end, or continue to work on another 2-3 week grind for your next set.

I hope they change this system. I've been in love with crafting in this game for years and I am seriously thinking about throwing in the towel. If history is any indication, I'll just wait out the storm and by the time new sets roll around in 4-6 months I can get all this gear in a week and not lift a finger.

I wish they would take the favor system out of red scrips and give gatherers something to use blue scrips on in the long run. Then take the crafting mats out of red scrips and put them back into dungeons or GC like they've been doing in the past. Thus letting the hardcore players grind out the sets they want, even if there is nothing to craft (its all about being a completionist), while also letting the more casual audience get their sets as well with only a longer grind instead of spending gil.