Defilberating the Dead Horse

[Alysrea]

It also takes time to play the market, gather the mats, sell while ppl keep undercutting you. You may say that Bustier is great money, but it hardly sells, everything else is at best 200-300k profit on Moogle

Are gatherers not also subject to having to play the market?, do they not get under cut when they post materials to sell?, I'm not trying to claim that Bustier is "great money", I'm just comparing time investment vs profitability using the item you brought up as the example to work with in discussion.

I do appreciate that you are trying to make sure both sides are represented fairly though, It is very easy to have the perspective that one side has it easier and I don't mean to diminish the effort that crafters put in by any means.

[Chrolo]

Are gatherers not also subject to having to play the market?, do they not get under cut when they post materials to sell?, I'm not trying to claim that Bustier is "great money", I'm just comparing time investment vs profitability using the item you brought up as the example to work with in discussion.

It is true that gatherers need alot more time to gatherer a million, thats why i am mainly crafting. But its riskfree, since even if prices drop you still earn, while sometimes a price drop may cut your profit as crafter if you couldnt sell the item for a few days and resource prices dropped in the meantime. Also for non glamour item, a streak of bad hasty touches with a failed reclaim can cost you all the mats.

These are just really extreme cases though and in general you do earn some good money as crafter

[scarebearz]

Gatherers do deserver to get their share, I totally agree.

Thing is for gatherers to make their gil, crafters need to be crafting and able to make gil too, or they just don't bother.

A lot of people seem to dislike those who made good gil from crafting, but people forget that these players are also heavily feeding the other areas of the in game ecomomy. E.g. gatherers, battle classes who farm, spiritbonders etc etc.

[Alysrea]

Gatherers do deserver to get their share, I totally agree.

Thing is for gatherers to make their gil, crafters need to be crafting and able to make gil too, or they just don't bother.

A lot of people seem to dislike those who made good gil from crafting, but people forget that these players are also heavily feeding the other areas of the in game ecomomy. E.g. gatherers, battle classes who farm, spiritbonders etc etc.

We just need to keep demanding more recipes that matter and I think with time SE will get the point, they dropped the ball this time but I think we will stabilize in a few months at the most when we get another batch of recipes.

[Aeyis]

We just need to keep demanding more recipes that matter and I think with time SE will get the point, they dropped the ball this time but I think we will stabilize in a few months at the most when we get another batch of recipes.

If you have insider information we would appreciate it if you shared it with us OP. Otherwise I dont see the point in your thread.

Why would anyone defibrilate a horse that isnt dead? The sole purpose of this thread is to draw attention away from the threads that are (rightfully) pointing out how much crafting and gathering got shafted this patch.

[Alysrea]

If you have insider information we would appreciate it if you shared it with us OP. Otherwise I dont see the point in your thread.

I am not the Poster of this thread, I don't have any inside information and specifically used language that just expressed that the things I have said are my opinion, ie "I think".
I most certainly think that people have the right to feel as though this patch is not as good as other patches in the past and in the most part I agree with those problems, But we need to discuss those things properly and articulate the reasons behind our feelings, I have also been weighing in on peoples solutions and trying to understand how they came to their conclusions, which I have been in support of in some cases. As well as trying to make sure that the aspects of gathering are included in the talks and not just solely focusing on the profitability of crafting.

[Snugglebutt]

If you have insider information we would appreciate it if you shared it with us OP. Otherwise I dont see the point in your thread.

Why would anyone defibrilate a horse that isnt dead? The sole purpose of this thread is to draw attention away from the threads that are (rightfully) pointing out how much crafting and gathering got shafted this patch.

Threads like this tend to be more constructive than ones propagating exaggerated dramatization of the issues. They bring the discussion back down to a responsible and reasonable level. That is what I think you do not like because you want dramatization of the issues as perhaps you might believe it adds weight to your claims and will force SE to make drastic changes instead of them taking their time to gather more accurate data, accurate facts and more sensible solutions through more reasonable analysis over a longer period.

What SE needs is the facts, monitoring of real data and realistic suggestions for improvements not melodramatic propaganda of which some other threads are relying on in order to get more drastic changes than SE will be in reality willing to give. Threads like this that get back to the core facts, honesty, realism and accurate data are far more important for future balancing and alterations to the current system than hyperbole, melodrama or exaggerations about the current state of crafting due to over emotional reactions and propagation of the issues to make them seem worse than they are in the hopes SE would make bigger changes than are required.

As for your question towards Alysrea about what evidence she/he has of more recipes will be added...use some common sense. Of course more recipes will be added over time so why bother even asking such a silly question. There are a multitude of reasonable threads here discussing the issues plus some extremely dramatic ones and this one is closer to reasonable variety than some of the alternative ones you have been supporting. This thread has gained some sensible insight on the topic and the realities of what some people want thanks to people like Alysrea whom you decided to attack.

I might also not agree with Scarebearz on a fair amount of things but even she hasn't been using half as much over-dramatization as you, Darth and AnimaS have. Which is why you do not see me having a go at her despite her little joke about how many times I used a certain word before. I have the intelligence to understand the issues, the wisdom to recognize the potential solutions and the common sense to realize the boundaries of what is not going to happen. However I may not have the experience to claim I have done it all myself which is why I focused my efforts on trying to bring the discussions back into the realms of reality and not the works of fiction propagated by some others because I believe in doing so it will help SE make better choices.

[scarebearz]

We just need to keep demanding more recipes that matter and I think with time SE will get the point, they dropped the ball this time but I think we will stabilize in a few months at the most when we get another batch of recipes.

The recipes in game atm I believe are great, new battle gear that would be a temp upgrade when melded and new AF crafter sets.

My only problem is how limited (weekly lockout) the mats for these are, making them totally cost prohibative for a long time.

[Alysrea]

The recipes in game atm I believe are great, new battle gear that would be a temp upgrade when melded and new AF crafter sets.

My only problem is how limited (weekly lockout) the mats for these are, making them totally cost prohibative for a long time.

I am curious, In your opinion do you think taking the weekly lockout away and making it more like blue scripts on no cap but just slow to get the points would be better?

[scarebearz]

I am curious, In your opinion do you think taking the weekly lockout away and making it more like blue scripts on no cap but just slow to get the points would be better?

Yes, mats would still be expencive and hard to get (they should be rare, just not insane like it is now), but those players who wanted to make gil from farming them (especially gatherers) would be able to do so and the supply would be much better.

I also think the number of ooids/gathered items should be reduced from 10 of each + crafter token, to 5 of each + crafter token.