Astro in savage

[Leiloni]

Every combat class in the game is designed to kill things, so I've never found the "not in my Job description" argument credible.

The question for roles aside from DPS is simply "When and how should I help the party kill things while making sure I'm taking care of my main responsibility?"

I'm just repeating a quote from Yoshi so it's not really my argument, more like his statement of fact about how they design the game. Feel free to argue with Yoshi P on that one.

[Leiloni]

Very true, but assuming everything will scale at roughly the same pace, AST is going to continue to be in dead last as a healer in the overall benefit they bring to a raid.

I think everyone agrees AST needs further changes. Just not in the dps department.

[Sidra]

Let's say current Ilvl is 185, and the fight is tuned for 200. At ilvl 200 a group will not need healer DPS to clear. But at 185, there isn't enough tank/mele dps available so healer DPS is needed. That means the fight is tuned for no healer DPS, but the early adopters need healers to chip in. If they did it the other way (tuned for healer dps at 200) no one would clear until close to 200 - and then groups who didn't have healer dps still couldn't clear

I think this is okay like this - as it takes a very skilled healer and group coordination to add dps will also healing in the top line progression content. Not everyone is going to be able to do it even if they tried. But then when the team gets to the proper ilvl - the healers can be less stressed (as we know very well from this forum, some aren't good enough, and some simply don't want to or don't like to) feeling they have to add dps and just heal.

Although one thing that will always be true - if you have 4 DPS at say 900 dps, and both healers at 0 - and you are 200 dps below a check. It will almost always be easier to get a healer form 0-200, than a dps who are already pushing dps hard, from 900-1100. Or even 4 DPS from 900-950.

Although there are semantics in play here too. The encounter is playable now, and people ware trying to clear it now. The fact that it's tuned for Ilvl 200 could be seen as irrelevant, and the case could be made that it is currently tuned for actually needing healer dps to be cleared, despite SE's public stance to the contrary. As "now" seems more relevant a basis point to define from, than in 3-4 weeks when players are more geared.

[RichardButte]

I think everyone agrees AST needs further changes. Just not in the dps department.

Well, it would depend on whether we're talking about the AST doing more DPS or enabling the party to do more DPS.

I'd rather they just make the heals better, though, as it's easier to balance.

From the next post:

If they happen to not be healing properly then yes because a lot of players panic on heavy damage and waste mp or forget to use abilities that could save them mp and it's not like AST has been around for a year or anything like WHM and SCH have.

So people have been playing WHM/SCH with all level 60 abilities for a year, eh?

Look, people have had to say this in the past and I'll say it again here: there is NO magical trick to AST to "get the most out of it" or some other such nonsense that theorycrafting forumers seem to love to rant about.

The class' healing abilities are largely a watered-down version of WHM's, with a few unique ones like Synastry and Light Speed, neither of which requires rocket science to use.

The only "mystery" here is why people (many of whom don't even have the class to 60) seem to think that it's actually fine when all evidence points to the opposite being true...

Not trying to be mean, but seriously, we can see where the class' weaknesses lie and we need to give SE some good feedback on fixing it. Saying it's all good isn't going to help anything.

[Kaizersan]

So you're going with the "they don't know how to play the class" argument, eh?

If they happen to not be healing properly then yes because a lot of players panic on heavy damage and waste mp or forget to use abilities that could save them mp and it's not like AST has been around for a year or anything like WHM and SCH have.

[justinjarjar]

[QUOTE=Leiloni;317744

I'm not saying you can just go and change people's expectations, but they balance the game with certain ideas in mind so if you're playing in a different manner than intended, you're going to have to expect different results. [/QUOTE] (copy paste issue not sure why it did that)

they balance around the 1% thou. Regardless of who is doing the raids. And jsut beacuse they do not design the raid around healer dps does not mean people should not or that yoshi p does not want people to dps as healer. If they made raids for everyone (like normal mode was made for) then most people would have done Final coil by now which is not true. They are adding more casual friendly content, but still balance and make content for high end players.3]If you've read the quote where they say that then you've already read the rest of it where they basically say they don't care. They don't design raids to only be done by the 1% that go in undergeared and need healer dps. They design it for a higher gear level where healer dps doesn't matter, so that a larger portion of the playerbase can actually go in and complete the content without feeling like they need to do more than what their class was designed for.

[Parawill]

Hi, Grekumah. I just wanted to make sure you saw this thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ring-A1-Savage.

Wow. They put that in better words than I could ever have. I 100% agree.

[Leiloni]

Well, it would depend on whether we're talking about the AST doing more DPS or enabling the party to do more DPS.

I'd rather they just make the heals better, though, as it's easier to balance.

Oh yes I meant personal healer dps skills only. But our other skills - supportive abilities and heals, could use some love for sure.

[justinjarjar]

Oh yes I meant personal healer dps skills only. But our other skills - supportive abilities and heals, could use some love for sure.

putting it that way yes most will agree.

[Kaizersan]

Like even simple non potency buffs would help AST like Aspect Helios having the range as medica 2 and being able to place CU without having to channel it would greatly increase AST overall healing power.