Astro in savage

[Kaizersan]

[QUOTE=Staris;3175969]First off (From Yesterday)
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[QUOTE]

Thanks for proving that AST can clear it just like the rest it just takes the team doing the right things.

[Tyla_Esmeraude]

Thanks for proving that AST can clear it just like the rest it just takes the team doing the right things.

Yes and as mentioned before by Richard and many others lol, ONLY if everyone makes little to no mistakes (actually you JUST said it yourself, it takes the team doing the right things, which doesn't happen all the time) and it is quite a struggle compared to WHM. There should be no reason for you to be struggling on AST when WHM and SCH can ease things by a far lot. If the 3 jobs can't contribute to the run equally with the same gear, there is a lack of balance. It's as clear as the sun.

Richard said that yes, it's a big feat completing it with an AST and that is precisely the point. It shouldn't be like that! lol It is a big feat because the job clearly, is weak. No, it's definetely NOT "like the rest.". Anyways this has been said over and over and now I just feel some people are just being purposely blind to not admit what is right in front of them. Go try savage A2+ on AST and tell us how it goes, though.

[RichardButte]

Thanks for proving that AST can clear it just like the rest it just takes the team doing the right things.

...Or you could take a SCH/WHM and give your team the leeway to screw up a little bit because even the best mess up once in a while (or get hit with lag spikes...).

Why would you take a healer that objectively places more of a strain on the team?

Progression raiders bring the strongest possible team for a reason, and even non-progression raiders (who are likely to make many more mistakes) aren't going to want to wipe again and again because someone wants to play as a less effective healer.

I mean...
"It's totally okay that you bring a weaker healer that brings absolutely nothing to the raid team that other healers don't, and we totally don't mind that the ensuing wipes will do nothing but waste our time and cost us repair money, when you could've instead brought a SCH/WHM and we could've cleared the content instead." - No Competent Raid Leader, ever.

I'll give people a pass if they're actively trying to test AST's potency, but beyond that, there's NO reason to bring an AST right now.

[Kaizersan]

The problem is that if you're wiping to DPS checks, a WHM/SCH duo allows the SCH to do a hell of a lot more DPS and, as people have been saying in the thread, that's what their experience has been and the content becomes dramatically easier once they switched to this combo.

And that's actually BACKWARDS: the whole point of AST is that you should be making DPS checks faster because of the buffs, and if we're not, then there's NO point to AST at all. :\

I'm guessing that if you had a WHM/SCH combo you'd have just rolled right through it...

The thing you need to take into account is alot of these people start off with AST and are only having issues due to DPS messing up and taking damage that they shouldn't and then they switched to WHM after the DPS have gotten what to do down and then it seems easier not because they are WHM now but because the DPS are now better at avoiding damage.

[RichardButte]

The thing you need to take into account is alot of these people start off with AST and are only having issues due to DPS messing up and taking damage that they shouldn't and then they switched to WHM after the DPS have gotten what to do down and then it seems easier not because they are WHM now but because the DPS are now better at avoiding damage.

So your argument is that, even though these people have said that they immediately had no trouble after switching away from AST, the run on which they all switched just HAPPENED to be the same run that the DPS in every single raid group wised up and stopped getting hit by the mechanics?

...Really?

I have watched plenty of streams with WHM SCH and still wipe over and over for the same reasons AST and SCH wipe it's called DPS messing up it happens and it can cause wipes no matter what healing team you bring in.

Yes, and when people go from wiping constantly with an AST to having little trouble with a WHM or SCH, what else could be blamed except for the AST?

No one is saying that every group with SCH/WHM is going to clear it every time, nor that every group with an AST will fail miserably every time.

The point is that we have a number of examples of people who tried with AST, found it hard or undoable, and then, with all other variables unchanged, switched to a different healer and cleared the content.

This confirms that the AST is a weaker healer and is in need of being brought in line with the other two.

[Kaizersan]

I mean...
"It's totally okay that you bring a weaker healer that brings absolutely nothing to the raid team that other healers don't, and we totally don't mind that the ensuing wipes will do nothing but waste our time and cost us repair money, when you could've instead brought a SCH/WHM and we could've cleared the content instead." - No Competent Raid Leader, ever.

I'll give people a pass if they're actively trying to test AST's potency, but beyond that, there's NO reason to bring an AST right now.

I have watched plenty of streams with WHM SCH and still wipe over and over for the same reasons AST and SCH wipe it's called DPS messing up it happens and it can cause wipes no matter what healing team you bring in.

[Zilara]

I appreciate your point about people messing things up regardless of the healing comp, but when my AST healer asks for help with regular tank healing because he doesn't have the MP to keep up with it, there's a big problem. In addition, there's realistically very little in A1 to mess up as a DD. Get your mob into position in time, pop keen flurry when you get prey. If you get hit by anything avoidable in A1, you simply die.

[Kaizersan]

So your argument is that, even though these people have said that they immediately had no trouble after switching away from AST, the run on which they all switched just HAPPENED to be the same run that the DPS in every single raid group wised up and stopped getting hit by the mechanics?

...Really?

Yep tell me this is a DPS better at avoiding damage after 5 tries or 20 the correct answer is 20 so yea its like Bis EX a healer can heal a perfect run but if the DPS screw up a rotation and don't put out enough damage it doesn't matter how good the healers are but in this case its the DPS avoiding damage.

[RichardButte]

Yep tell me this is a DPS better at avoiding damage after 5 tries or 20 the correct answer is 20 so yea its like Bis EX a healer can heal a perfect run but if the DPS screw up a rotation and don't put out enough damage it doesn't matter how good the healers are but in this case its the DPS avoiding damage.

Also, you might want to read up on this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

[Kaizersan]

I appreciate your point about people messing things up regardless of the healing comp, but when my AST healer asks for help with regular tank healing because he doesn't have the MP to keep up with it, there's a big problem. In addition, there's realistically very little in A1 to mess up as a DD. Get your mob into position in time, pop keen flurry when you get prey. If you get hit by anything avoidable in A1, you simply die.

The question you should ask are they healing properly and are they using their free heal everytime they need a big heal to save on MP also are they using synastry to help cure multiple people saving mp.