Unjust Kicking from Alexander T4

[Kaedan]

Right. Because heaven forbid your raid take 5 more minutes...

Yeesh.

Your entire post is hyperbole in the extreme. For one, being an X learner only means you learn most easily/best through that type of learning. It doesn't mean you're incapable of learning through other methods, or at least getting a basic understanding of mechanics.

But the quoted part is just plain insulting. If someone doesn't understand the mechanics of A1 or A4 and screw it up for everyone in the final phases, that can be over 15 minutes wasted.

[Lilyanna]

but...people learn in different ways.

Pretty much this.^ My Husband (Buddy Healer in Raids) learns differently then I do, I can read/watch whatever and understand the fight the moment I go in. For him, it is repetition/hands-on that works the best for him. (He'll DF an EX primal 100 times to learn it on his own if he has to).

My group has been down a DPS for a while, so we queue 7/8 for A4 and more often then not we get a new person. We offer TS or a text based explanation of the fight and 99.99% of the time (except for 1 cuz our OT messed up, lol) we 1-shot it. It took no less than 5 minutes either way to explain it and instead of wiping over and over and raging, we were done and out.

To me, it was simple, clean, to the point, and we got out faster than we would have ignoring the new person and rushing it. (Would have offered them to join our farm party, but never on the same server ).

[Dracosavarian]

Your entire post is hyperbole in the extreme. For one, being an X learner only means you learn most easily/best through that type of learning. It doesn't mean you're incapable of learning through other methods, or at least getting a basic understanding of mechanics.

But the quoted part is just plain insulting. If someone doesn't understand the mechanics of A1 or A4 and screw it up for everyone in the final phases, that can be over 15 minutes wasted.

Then go to Party finder if you don't want to deal with it. Again, people learn differently. Or, take the 5 minutes, and do a very quick brief rundown. It seriously does not take that long to break down a fight's mechanics into a quick synopsis.

Again, Duty Finder is a gamble. It's a roulette. You want to farm it ? Or clear the area you are queuing for without a single screw up? Do Party finder. I see groups in there constantly forming. Issue solved. Then people have a right to complain.

If you find my post insulting, that is not my issue. Common Courtesy and treating others kindly seems to have fallen more into a term of Uncommon Courtesy it seems. Again, Duty Finder is a roulette. A gamble. Your sense of rushing and farming and entitlement is your problem. Not the new players. And that is the attitude many who gripe take, this sense of...how dare you waste my time? That's the general gist of that mentality. As I said, some of us learn by actually doing the content, myself included. Even with Videos, videos are nowhere near the level that first hand experience can teach me. And many others for that matter.

Maybe I'm just alone in the fact that I enjoy playing the game and I also like helping people out and helping them to clear stuff with me, and by doing so, they become a better player. But I'm a tank. I took up the job because I enjoy helping people. So it generally bothers me when I see others treat people like dirt.

Even when I was a Dark Knight in FFXI I bit a bullet repeatedly and ate an exp loss to help others in my party. Consider it a part of who I am. As I said...Common Courtesy and kindness to your fellow human being.

Try it sometime. You might find it can go a long way.

[Dracosavarian]

Pretty much this.^ My Husband (Buddy Healer in Raids) learns differently then I do, I can read/watch whatever and understand the fight the moment I go in. For him, it is repetition/hands-on that works the best for him. (He'll DF an EX primal 100 times to learn it on his own if he has to).

My group has been down a DPS for a while, so we queue 7/8 for A4 and more often then not we get a new person. We offer TS or a text based explanation of the fight and 99.99% of the time (except for 1 cuz our OT messed up, lol) we 1-shot it. It took no less than 5 minutes either way to explain it and instead of wiping over and over and raging, we were done and out.

To me, it was simple, clean, to the point, and we got out faster than we would have ignoring the new person and rushing it. (Would have offered them to join our farm party, but never on the same server ).

Thank you Lilyanna, this is exactly what I am talking about. It's a comfort to see that there are good natured players out there like you.

This is a prime example for those who are complaining about eating a 15 minute loss, what a 5 minute explanation can do. Especially on content that's been out all of 2-3 weeks, but some can't be bothered to just simply take the time and avoid the wipe in the first place by being kind, and taking a moment to help and explain.

[Dracosavarian]

Snip

I've explained over 5 different Ravana fights one after another to complete and utter newbies. No videos beforehand.

All of them cleared without a single wipe. Because I took the time to explain it to the group in a way that was easy to understand and was concise.

Communication, and how you explain it, is key. It can sink in. You just have to know how to word the message.

[Adire]

I've explained over 5 different Ravana fights one after another to complete and utter newbies. No videos beforehand.

All of them cleared without a single wipe. Because I took the time to explain it to the group in a way that was easy to understand and was concise.

Communication, and how you explain it, is key. It can sink in. You just have to know how to word the message.

That's great. But why couldn't they watch videos or read a guide beforehand?

MrHappy's videos are easy to understand and detailed. MTQCapture's videos are easy to understand and are concise. They can be watched, or text guides can be read prior to going into the duty, and doing so is more considerate of your fellow human beings.

Then you could have cleared them without wipes and without having to hold up 8 people to type out explanations.

I'm definitely a hands-on learner myself, yet I still make sure I am well aware of mechanics prior to going in. I may still mess up in practice due to lack of experience, but I understand the mechanics and how they work in my mind.

I do not feel it's considerate of the other 3/7/23 people for me to expect them to hold themselves up and explain to me what I could have gotten from a video or text guide prior to entering.

[Dracosavarian]

That's great. But why couldn't they watch videos or read a guide beforehand?

MrHappy's videos are easy to understand and detailed. MTQCapture's videos are easy to understand and are concise. They can be watched, or text guides can be read prior to going into the duty, and doing so is more considerate of your fellow human beings.

Then you could have cleared them without wipes and without having to hold up 8 people to type out explanations.

I'm definitely a hands-on learner myself, yet I still make sure I am well aware of mechanics prior to going in. I may still mess up in practice due to lack of experience, but I understand the mechanics and how they work in my mind.

I do not feel it's considerate of the other 3/7/23 people to hold themselves up and explain to me what I could have gotten from a video or text guide prior to entering.

The question should moreso be...why do you yourself have an issue with someone asking for a brief rundown of the mechanics and for that to be briefly explained when you are using Duty Finder, knowing full well you may run into this? Or the rest of the group for that matter. Know how many new players I've run into low level dungeons of late? A lot. I still help them. Even when they screw up.

But...I'll humor you.

The answer is, they shouldn't have to. A dungeon, or even a raid, should not be the equivalent of a teacher slamming down a stack of books and saying to someone, test is in 5 minutes. Read all of this. The first groups that delved into that dungeon for the very first time did not have benefit of videos. They had to learn on their own. No one expects them to delve into matters like others in this community apparently do 5 minutes after Mr Happy puts a video up.

It's 2 weeks out now from when heavensward was launched. 2 Weeks. It should not be unexpected that you are going to run into people who are new. Getting up in arms about this is the height of hilarity to me. It just is. Moreover, I view it as people basically feeling they are more important than others. Basically, to me, it's the height of arrogance and pride. You view yourself as more important than the other person. Your time, in a game of all things, as more valuable than helping them learn.

Others who are genuine when they ask for help, or when they say Hey I've watched a vid but I don't remember everything. Can you summarize it again? But no, they are shunned and met with silence, and then rage and a kick when they screw up because no one spoke up, despite how hard they may have tried.

I watch MTQ's videos to summarize things. I find her videos far more concise than Mr Happy's who tends to drone on forever and forever and drives me insane with nigh on infinite levels of rage because I feel the dude just doesn't get to the point. But that's my personal opinion in regards to his work. Even then, even with my research, I still don't remember everything going in my first time. I still ask the members in my party for a brief synopsis at the boss after I say "Here's what I remember"

And you know what? They take the time to tell me. Because the group relies on me to keep the mob from chewing their face off. Kind of important. Aside from that though, I'd like to think that those who do speak up are just being kind and helpful.

Long story short, if you are in DF, no one should expect anything. Period. But people are. Seeing a Party Finder Listing saying "Know the fight!" is one thing. When you sign up for that party and you don't know anything, or ask questions there saying you are new...you get what you deserve.

But Duty Finder is another beast altogether. Like or not, the entire group of you, all random, is basically dumped on an island and stranded for lack of better terms. Survival depends on teamwork.

Just like Real Life, everyone is not going to know everything. How do you survive? By working together and helping others. If you were stranded on said island and didn't know how to make a fire via primitive methods to warm yourself, and I did...I would not hoard that knowledge. I'd help you. Because ultimately my survival depends on you surviving as well.

A rough analogy, but the basic point is the same. You are all thrown together. Like it or not, that is the result. Yes, you can do a kick. But doing so when someone is genuinely trying to learn only makes the group who did the kicking the jerks in the end. They are the bad guys. Not the newbie.

[Wobble]

FFXIV was the first MMORPG where i saw things like this:

- Did you watch Youtube videos before entering the dungeon
- Did you watch the guides before entering the dungeon

If you response, no i did not? Then you are noob and bad player.

This is strange community. Dungeons are supposed to be learned by playing them, wiping, learning by mistake, improving etc... And not how some elitists want that people should watch some videos lol .

This was in Ultimate Ballad. Easily learned after couple of wipes.

Agree 100%. They watch a video and win, yay them but they really only won because some held their hands and made a video/guide. I always say to the people that ask if you watched a video that even the people that made the video had to learn it before making it.

[Fatedkiss]

If you don't want to explain things, if you want to have that sense of entitlement, fine. Feel free to do so. Just realize the only person to blame when you are eating dirt along with the rest of the group is because you refused to speak up and help in addition to the rest of the group that decided to remain silent.

There are so many posts on this forum that exemplify the issues within the community that are creating a toxic environment. Whats worse is that no one will ever agree. People are quick to say that the raids require teamwork and the one person who has yet to watch a video is not helping, yet in doing so they fail to realize that by not assisting that new person (even if they were in the wrong) is also contributing to the loss of the team.

I think the worst part about it personally is that most people refuse to look beyond what they feel is the correct thing to do. Its always black or white, If only we were able to be more open minded a solution may at some point become possible.
however that asking for the impassable one can not simply instill reasoning and logic.

[ckc22]

FFXIV was the first MMORPG where i saw things like this:

- Did you watch Youtube videos before entering the dungeon
- Did you watch the guides before entering the dungeon

If you response, no i did not? Then you are noob and bad player.

This is strange community. Dungeons are supposed to be learned by playing them, wiping, learning by mistake, improving etc... And not how some elitists want that people should watch some videos lol .

This was in Ultimate Ballad. Easily learned after couple of wipes.

Waste someone else's time.