Getting refused to EX groups as a DRK

[spelley]

Incorrect, even if a warrior inner beasts every perpetual, they still come out below. Dark Knight should be able to shadowskin (20%), shadow wall(30%), and dark mind(30%) when you consider this in addition to grit DRKs come out ahead. DRKs don't need to reprisal to be more mp efficient nor offer more mitigation.

Also, Delirium Blade for all that magic damage (assuming you don't have a MNK)

[Giantbane]

I don't know about making Abyssal Drain a single target ability or even if it should be kept at all under the situation you outlined. Maybe keep it with your changes, maybe get rid of it to free up another ability slot for something more needed, honestly haven't gotten to that point in my thought process yet.

However, I definitely agree about the unnecessary redundancy with Abyssal and Unleashed. As you suggested, they should really just condense them down into a single ability. Regular Unleashed works as is, DA+Unleashed works like DA+Abyssal. That would help streamline their ability set a bit and I feel that they could definitely use more of that.

I like the targetting from abyssal, but just because it's different than what PLD & WAR have. Nice to have unique touches between the classes like that.

[stoxastic]

Disagree, even if a warrior inner beasts every perpetual, they still come out below. Dark Knight should be able to shadowskin (20%), shadow wall(30%), and dark mind(30%) when you consider this in addition to grit DRKs come out ahead. DRKs don't need to reprisal to be more mp efficient nor offer more mitigation. The only thing Warrior has to offer is IB and Vengeance. Thrill isn't more mitigation it only serves to grant more hp/self heal. Past that point it has no mp efficiency like other CDs.

If Divine Veil isn't something that is needed for the mega/teraflare mechanic then it won't really mean too much.

WAR is actually really good against Perpetual as it comes out in bursts. You can Equilibrium after one comes out to heal yourself for a good chunk. You can also Infuriate + Inner beast the 2nd/3rd Perpetual to take advantage of the IB heal as well for once. DA+Dark Mind is really good here but I don't think it's miles ahead of what WAR can offer. DA+Dark Mind + Shadowskin is about as good as Inner Beast + Vengeance. As for PLD, they can also HG to easily negate once set of Perpetuals, but their mitigation against magic damage is admittedly weaker (PLDs were weaker against Ahk Morn compared to WAR as well).

[Giantbane]

Disagree, even if a warrior inner beasts every perpetual, they still come out below. Dark Knight should be able to shadowskin (20%), shadow wall(30%), and dark mind(30%) when you consider this in addition to grit DRKs come out ahead. DRKs don't need to reprisal to be more mp efficient nor offer more mitigation. The only thing Warrior has to offer is IB and Vengeance. Thrill isn't more mitigation it only serves to grant more hp/self heal. Past that point it has no mp efficiency like other CDs. I would say DRK/WAR is the best alternative personally.

If Divine Veil isn't something that is needed for the mega/teraflare mechanic then it won't really mean too much.

Pair Thrill with a cross class Convalescence and it works exactly like another shadowskin (except it's equivalent to 17% mitigation, so it's a little weaker).

The thing about WAR is they can have SP up all the time (a little stronger than delerium, and you can have a MNK put it up) and they can have inner beast up for every tank buster. Sure inner beast only lasts 6s, but you can use it at least 3x more often than you can use DA + Dark Mind. Then, on top of that, they've got vengeance and thrill of battle+convalescence at relatively low cooldowns, so that helps too. I think this puts them on par with DRK against magical damage. I don't think it necessarily makes them *better* but it at least makes them equivalent.

[PerihVashai]

WAR is actually really good against Perpetual as it comes out in bursts. You can Equilibrium after one comes out to heal yourself for a good chunk. You can also Infuriate + Inner beast the 2nd/3rd Perpetual to take advantage of the IB heal as well for once. DA+Dark Mind is really good here but I don't think it's miles ahead of what WAR can offer. DA+Dark Mind + Shadowskin is about as good as Inner Beast + Vengeance. As for PLD, they can also HG to easily negate once set of Perpetuals, but their mitigation against magic damage is admittedly weaker (PLDs were weaker against Ahk Morn compared to WAR as well).

DRK can living dead the later ones as well with close to no penalty if benediction is up. IB is weaker than souleater as well. WAR is by no means miles behind but DRK is ahead, not to mention the group would benefit more by having a WAR OT DPS in this current meta.

Not really relevant slight derail:

(PLDs were weaker against Ahk Morn compared to WAR as well).

It really depends on what your CD prioritization was if you did
1st: WAR IB/VENG PLD RAMP/SENT
2nd: Holmgang
3rd: Hallowed
4th: War IB/VENG PLD RAMP SENT
PLD is ahead at this point
5th: Holmgang, need pld to stack for the first hit though.
Needless to say this is probably the best way to do it from a CD perspective imo. However most people don’t do this nor would I trust the 5th ahkmorn to be done like that in a pug haha

edit:

Pair Thrill with a cross class Convalescence and it works exactly like another shadowskin (except it's equivalent to 17% mitigation, so it's a little weaker).

The thing about WAR is they can have SP up all the time (a little stronger than delerium, and you can have a MNK put it up) and they can have inner beast up for every tank buster. Sure inner beast only lasts 6s, but you can use it at least 3x more often than you can use DA + Dark Mind. Then, on top of that, they've got vengeance and thrill of battle+convalescence at relatively low cooldowns, so that helps too. I think this puts them on par with DRK against magical damage. I don't think it necessarily makes them *better* but it at least makes them equivalent.

Thrill of battle isn't mitigation its a self heal, which can increase the mp efficiency. I'm not sure if you're implying conv + thrill stack because that's not the case? DRK also gains access to conv as well. The implication wasn't to drop the WAR but to lose the PLD. Keep in mind though when you start factoring in self heals sure they help out for big hitters but they don't continue to mitigate past that point where CDS like dark mind and rampart do etc.

Also just to make sure everyone's on the same page the context here is A4 and nothing else btw.

[Alphras]

Souleater is not that much stronger than IB while tanking, 368 potency vs 360.

Edit: And you forgot the ToB + Conv. combination in your CD roatation. That is another ~17% effective dr.

[PerihVashai]

Souleater is not that much stronger than IB while tanking, 368 potency vs 360.

I would really like to know how you're getting 360 potency.

[Kiteless]

Thrill of battle isn't mitigation its a self heal, which can increase the mp efficiency. I'm not sure if you're implying conv + thrill stack because that's not the case? DRK also gains access to conv as well. The implication wasn't to drop the WAR but to lose the PLD. Keep in mind though when you start factoring in self heals sure they help out for big hitters but they don't continue to mitigate past that point where CDS like dark mind and rampart do etc.

The point he's making is that, for the sake of eating tank busters, WAR's unique combination of conv+thrill increases eHP, allowing it to act as a form of mitigation (similar to how Defiance works), which none of the other tanks can do. Conv+thrill is nearly as effective as shadow wall in this respect, and is very definitely a mitigation tool.

[Alphras]

I would really like to know how you're getting 360 potency.

Souleater: 400 * 0.8 * 1.15 = 368
Inner Beast: 300 * 1.2 = 360

[PerihVashai]

The point he's making is that, for the sake of eating tank busters, WAR's unique combination of conv+thrill increases eHP, allowing it to act as a form of mitigation (similar to how Defiance works), which none of the other tanks can do. Conv+thrill is nearly as effective as shadow wall in this respect, and is very definitely a mitigation tool.

Except for the fact that you're neglecting that Dark Knight has access to Conv so making it as a comparison against DRK is a moot point unless its increasing the potency of thrill, which it's not. The only active self heal that can KIND OF be considered mitigation really is bloodbath, and that's only because it persists. Once a self heal has been popped that's it, there is no mitigation past that point. You just equilibrium for 4k? Great it saved MP. Shadow wall just shaved off 30% and it's going to continue shaving it off. Not to mention once the perpetual ray starts adding up Shadow Wall is much more effective.

edit: Oh right maim, long day at work herp. Thanks!