Getting refused to EX groups as a DRK

[SpookyGhost]

Okay, nobody ever mentions Bloodbath and Foresight, which I use regularly on cooldown. Are they really that awful that nobody mentions them even once?

Foresight is ok, but it's not a tank buster CD. Bloodbath usually leads to overhealing, or just healing too little - it's semi-useful under offensive buffs to alleviate fluff damage a bit but that's about as far as it goes.

[Krissey]

Foresight is ok, but it's not a tank buster CD. Bloodbath usually leads to overhealing, or just healing too little - it's semi-useful under offensive buffs to alleviate fluff damage a bit but that's about as far as it goes.

I thought this whole argument was "overall mitigation", and Foresight reduces damage right? So that's mitigation. I just feel like, if we're going to argue for 7 pages over precisely every little detail of mitigation, any amount of damage reduced or damage recovered, even 1, might be important to be completely fair?

Maybe I am missing the point

[PWilson]

Okay, nobody ever mentions Bloodbath and Foresight, which I use regularly on cooldown. Are they really that awful that nobody mentions them even once?

Sshhhhh.
When someone talks about "damage mitigation" and "eHP" to emphasize the work that the healer has to do, while breathlessly comparing the classes and ignoring Bloodbath, I giggle a little inside.
/ and I'm a plaid, not even a wore

Really, a spirited discussion like this is the result of some really good balancing work on SE's part.

[SpookyGhost]

I thought this whole argument was "overall mitigation", and Foresight reduces damage right? So that's mitigation. I just feel like, if we're going to argue for 7 pages over precisely every little detail of mitigation, any amount of damage reduced or damage recovered, even 1, might be important to be completely fair?

Maybe I am missing the point

Well, everyone can kinda use Foresight, the only thing the trait does is shorten the recast time (120s -> 90s). Foresight is also physical defense only, so would be useless against magic attacks. But yeah, over the course of a physical-based fight, a WAR would probably end up mitigating a bit more damage with some extra Foresights.

[Ditto]

No one is denying Foresight's use, and Bloodbath should be used on cooldown just because why not.

Thing is, every tank has these. Just as they can all have Convalescence, but Conv just beats both Bloodbath and Foresight in terms of usefulness.

Foresight is like an extra small layer of protection you throw over your actual cd's. It alone isn't going to save you from anything.

Well, everyone can kinda use Foresight, the only thing the trait does is shorten the recast time (120s -> 90s). Foresight is also physical defense only, so would be useless against magic attacks. But yeah, over the course of a physical-based fight, a WAR would probably end up mitigating a bit more damage with some extra Foresights.

And ya pretty much that^

[Krissey]

Well, everyone can kinda use Foresight, the only thing the trait does is shorten the recast time (120s -> 90s). Foresight is also physical defense only, so would be useless against magic attacks. But yeah, over the course of a physical-based fight, a WAR would probably end up mitigating a bit more damage with some extra Foresights.

I just feel bad for Foresight. Nobody ever talks about him but he's my buddy and I use him on cooldown, every time, whether tanking trash or tanking bosses. I like to combine him with Bloodbath, then do a few overpowered strikes to get that healing going.

However that's just a habit I've fallen in to, also I only do that combo on trash packs. Otherwise I do the Bloodbath+Foresight thing on main boss with Unchained and break out all the cooldowns.

Edit: Does Convalescence effect help or combine well with Bloodbath?

I usually do Bloodbath+Foresight together, and use Thrill of Battle+Convalescence+Second Wind together, and use Vengeance on its own. Inner Beast every 5 stacks, and use Infuriate+Inner Beast on cooldown.

Am I doing it wrong?

[SpookyGhost]

Convalescence doesn't effect Bloodbath's healing (Conv only affects healing magic), you usually want to save Convalescence to pair with Thrill.

Thrill + Conv, Vengeance, and Raw Intuition are your big CDs that you want to save for tank busters (Raw Intuition is useless against magical tank busters, though). Bloodbath and Foresight are used on CD, Bloodbath often best paired with offensive CDs (Unchained, Berserk, IR) while Foresight is just useful for mitigating fluff damage as often as it's available for. Second Wind and Equilibrium are best when under the effect of Berserk, but basically just used in a pinch (no heals incoming, at critical health, tank buster incoming, etc) or after a tank buster. Always use IB @ 5 stacks unless Infuriate isn't available and a tank buster is coming up in a few GCDs.

If Unchained is up and no tank buster is coming in the next ~20s, it's better to use that over IB.

That's the basics of WAR mitigation/management-wise. Stuff changes from fight to fight and WAR has a lot of leg room for mitigation, so as long as you're not dying and your healers aren't complaining then you're doing it right.

[Reynhart]

DRK's only damage increasing cooldown, Blood Weapon, increases our attack speed by 10% for 15 seconds every 40.

Hmmm, Darkside, maybe ?

[Agrieus]

Hmmm, Darkside, maybe ?

Yup. Dark Arts as well. And Drk has also has quite a few OGC attacks to use even while in it's tanking stance. It's got a lot to do with why Drk dps is higher than War dps while the two are in their respective tanking stances. Kiteless...you also forgot to mention that all attacks that hit the War from the side or rear will be crits while Raw Intuition is up, which is kind of a big deal....especially when tanking two large enemies or many small to mid sized enemies because some of them WILL be flanking you so you've got to be careful when using raw intuition. You CAN combo it with awareness to help with the crit thing but having to pop another CD to counter the negatives of another could be considered a disadvantage. This is also assuming that the two can be used at the same time, which I'm sure they can be.

[Kaedan]

Tanking with both WAR/DRK now, WAR is squishier than DRK, and if WAR stance dances to use Fel Cleave they are even squishier since a big part of a WAR's mitigation is Inner Beast. Also there is SOOOOO much magic in Alex Dark Mind is fantastic! DPS wise, if a WAR spends all their time in Deliverance they are about equal with DRK, without Grit (assuming they both have slashing debuff). MTing DPS, DRK is higher than WAR assuming the WAR spends all their time in Defiance and uses all stacks on Unchained/Inner Beast.


Warrior is a lot easier to play, and their burst is amazing with Fel Cleave. I went warrior in Floor 4 because the burst was great since you spent such little time on the boss, because of quarantine.

Of course DRK will drain TP in any sustained fight while WAR has pretty solid sustain, assuming you use Equilibrium for TP. I did like using it for healing in Floor 4 though because of the orb damage.

Yup. The textbook numbers never quite represent the reality.

Okay, nobody ever mentions Bloodbath and Foresight, which I use regularly on cooldown. Are they really that awful that nobody mentions them even once?

No point mentioning them since every Tank can use them. If only 1 or 2 of the 3 tanks could use them, then it would be a point of discussion.