Getting refused to EX groups as a DRK

[Adventica6]

Guessing it's because drks awful tp managment combined with the darkside mp bug with regens that still isn't fixed, these things are holding drk back considerably compared to a warrior, I don't have exp with pld but I think they are doing ok dmg not sure.

The problem is forsure the darkside mp bug, with all the buffs and regens flying around you will constantly be using the low dmg syphon combo to just stay afloat, where as a warrior can just keep slamming away with no mp to worry about and good tp also.

To the people who said " those guys were just being jerks" all 5 different groups? yeh sure... it's called a stigma, and isn't going away until darkside bug is dealt with.

[Ipkonfig]

@Adventica6

First, it's been said to death, the Darkside MP bug is not an actual bug it's just a graphical glitch, you gain the MP back in the next ticks, but yes if you don't manage your MP and let yourself get low enough where the glitch drains you to zero before the next tick, Darkside falls off, but that's just bad DRKing. Also Syphon Strike is DRK's highest potency combo, Syphon Strike -> Delirium Blade is the second highest average potency combo for tanks.

Playing both DRK/WAR in all current content at i181 I can say that they both have there ups and downs, and I can see reasons to bring either to a fight, and so far you don't need a PLD MT for anything.

It also isn't that the were being "jerks" they are just ignorant and assume because a bunch of players, who don't even have the class at cap say it's bad, that it is, in fact, bad. The reality is that it's a solid tank, great for Alex because of the preponderance of magical attacks, and it also does great damage. Tied with WAR in OT DPS (zero fights atm have enough up time to drain your TP) and the best MT DPS.

[Kiteless]

Hmmm, Darkside, maybe ?

Darkside isn't really a cooldown. You should always have it turned on unless you're bad. It's closer to a weaker, MP draining Shield Oath in that comparison, even if you can keep it on during Grit (at the cost of losing Blood Weapon, which evens things out with Keen Flurry).

Yup. Dark Arts as well. And Drk has also has quite a few OGC attacks to use even while in it's tanking stance. It's got a lot to do with why Drk dps is higher than War dps while the two are in their respective tanking stances.

DRK does have quite a few oGCD attacks, but that does not mean that they'll do more damage than WAR. Considering their major offensive buffs, DRK will generally be dealing 92% damage (Darkside at all times), WAR 90% (Maim at all times), and PLD 88% (Keen flurry a third of the time) while in their tanking stances. Then you factor in things like Unchained, Eye of the Storm and Berserk, and WAR's damage starts to soar. Furthermore, WAR has the ability to stance dance freely. Even if DRK can manage to outDPS WAR in Defiance, that doesn't really matter, since good WARs should be freely switching throughout the fight, outputting massive damage with Deliverance, and then switching to Defiance to use Inner Beast and eat any big hits.

Because of the massive MP cost and GCD attached to Grit, DRK doesn't really have this luxury. WAR has changed quite a bit with 3.0, and you're not giving it the credit it deserves.

Kiteless...you also forgot to mention that all attacks that hit the War from the side or rear will be crits while Raw Intuition is up, which is kind of a big deal....especially when tanking two large enemies or many small to mid sized enemies because some of them WILL be flanking you so you've got to be careful when using raw intuition. You CAN combo it with awareness to help with the crit thing but having to pop another CD to counter the negatives of another could be considered a disadvantage. This is also assuming that the two can be used at the same time, which I'm sure they can be.

Okay, bad WARs will be hurt by Raw intuition. But we don't care about bad WARs. And yes, Raw Intuition can be used with Awareness, and that's not a disadvantage.

@Adventica6

First, it's been said to death, the Darkside MP bug is not an actual bug it's just a graphical glitch, you gain the MP back in the next ticks, but yes if you don't manage your MP and let yourself get low enough where the glitch drains you to zero before the next tick, Darkside falls off, but that's just bad DRKing.

Um... no. Any MP you don't spend is wasted output or mitigation. Managing your MP is all about letting it get as low as possible without actually reaching zero. If you're not letting your MP get low enough to the point where you're being affected by the MP bug, then you're not playing DRK efficiently enough. But if you have MP randomly dropping for no reason, there's nothing you can do about that except lower your own efficiency.

[Dante_V]

Seems like the dps are relying on the tanks to meet the check which is a no go IMO. Ive beaten the dps check with any tank combination and sometimes with the tanks parsing below what they should be. With good dps and the tanks understanding their necessity and survivability it's fairly simple. Also I see a lot of talk about low Drk dps and honestly the ones who I've met and seem to understand the class have been bringing in high numbers as MT (more so than as OT) but I think an MT DRK is extremely viable if the person knows the job. So long as the tanks are at least bringing an average amount of dps the party should be successful. I think there is a lot of sub par dps at this point relying on tanks and even healers to meet the check and using this as a basis to discriminate against drk (or other classes like brd or mch) to make up for their lack of ability on their own jobs. Drk doesn't deserve all the hate it gets even if their are mountains of people who don't fully understand the job yet.

TL;DR
unless the tank is bringing extremely subpar dps it really shouldn't matter. If the dps are decently geared and know their stuff the tank composition wont matter to any extreme degree to warrant discrimination of one job vs the next. In savage content this might be different but the ex primals should be more than accessible with any tank combo including 2 drks.

[Ipkonfig]

@Kiteless - I've never had an issue with DAing any CD, along with mixing in DA/Souleaters, AND running out of MP. You have a constant stream of incoming MP along with out going MP there is no reason to bottom yourself out versus maintaining a solid level and sticking with it. Especially in emergency situations, I had a tank get knocked off into the transition to the third phase of Bis Ex and if I didn't maintain my MP I wouldn't have been able to snap off a few Abyssal Drains to pull the two melee adds over to the caster add.

[Kiteless]

Unless you're fighting nothing but trash (and phase 3 of Bismark Ex is basically a glorified trash pull anyway), there's no way you're going to be unable to spend your MP faster than Blood Price regenerates it. Especially against bosses with slow attack speeds (I'm looking at you, A1).

[Ipkonfig]

The whole point is to not bankrupt yourself. Is there some lost DPS potential there? Yes, but we're talking about 40 average potency on DA/Souleater versus Delirium Combos. Only having Dark Dance and Dark Mind to worry about cool down wise is easily subsidized in the grand scheme. Dark Passengers blind is useless on most bosses, and you have to decide if you want to use C&S to gain MP or lose MP and deal damage.

Syphon Strike refunds half a Dark Arts, same with C&S, and for slow hitting bosses, like Floor 1, the damage on tank is really low I typically drop Grit and Blood Weapon to get back to 100%.

[Timat]

@Adventica6

First, it's been said to death, the Darkside MP bug is not an actual bug it's just a graphical glitch,

No its not, a graphical glitch implies it does not actually affect gameplay which it does. You may think its a minior thing but even if you do saying its a graphical glitch is incorrect

Though again its not as harmless as you think it is. You can try to pass it off as "If you cant deal with it you are just bad" but that doesnt make it so.

[Ipkonfig]

The only time it effects game play is if you let yourself get extremely low and the glitch causes you to drop to zero making Dark Side fall off. Why on earth would you let your MP get so low? At that level of MP you lose almost all utility, you can't grab ranged threat, you can't generate AoE threat, and you can't Dark Arts till you get yourself back to at least 33% MP.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be fixed, but I'm stating it's a completely ridiculous reason to exclude a DRK from content. I've done everything as DRK and WAR and I feel more like a tank on DRK, but it's hard to not play WAR for those sweet Fel Cleaves.

[Faytte]

Tanking with both WAR/DRK now, WAR is squishier than DRK

Your WAR is bad then.