Why are bards / Mechanists so... Sensitive? <_<

[Lillia]

Hi paladin. Notice how u run out of tp after about 2 minutes and 50 seconds.....yeah.

They play bard Sessu.

[Gilraen]

I'd love to know where this whole "Support DPS" idea comes from and why people keep perpetuating it. It doesn't exist its construct people use to justify what is a blatantly stupid discrepancy in DPS numbers.

Hmm... so you just joined recently if your forums registration is a clue so it's forgivable that you don't know where the 'support DD' notion stems. It's from 1.0 where Bard was substantially more supportive, cross-classing pugilist and conjurer. In fact, Bard was expected to have Raise as part of it's skill set or they were deemed 'worthless'. Their '2 hour' was called Soul Voice and on top of buffing songs it also granted an HP boost. That's obviously not the case anymore, but the songs remain largely unchanged outside of duration and the '2 hour' renamed Battle Voice with the HP boost removed. This is why the 'support DD' notion is still around, Bards are still expected to give it through song.

[ParanoidHobo]

Hi paladin. Notice how u run out of tp after about 2 minutes and 50 seconds.....yeah.

Don't throw that around like that's good game design to be defended. Resource management shouldn't be "bring a BRD/Gunbard", it shouldn't even be "press your refill button every X seconds". The class design in this regard is super lazy pretty much across the board.

[Lillia]

Don't throw that around like that's good game design to be defended. Resource management shouldn't be "bring a BRD/Gunbard", it shouldn't even be "press your refill button every X seconds". The class design in this regard is super lazy pretty much across the board.

I won't say it's good or bad game design but what I will say is if a player is ever wanting to just be a pure DPS bard just because their role in DF is set to DPS its probably not going to end well when they see songs cut their DPS anddd that people do want them to sing the songs because that's part of the 'bard's role' and that is just how the game is right now.

Of course they don't have to sing them but they may also end up booted by other players or disliked greatly especially if the wipes were caused due to low mp healers.... Soooo yeah.... I'd say bard is pretty darn supporty.

[matteoxyz]

Joking or not, that just isn't a great first impression you are making on people. It's extremely rude and an indicator that you will not be a good player to run a dungeon with and may harass the bard the whole time. The problem isn't really that bards are more sensitive than normal, it's that if you greet someone you are meeting for the first time with "ew" that is not really acceptable behaviour...

[Edellis]

Hey, look.

About 35% of my runs has somebody throwing snide remarks about my DPS, regardless of the fact i put out way more AoE damage than anyone else in the party.

You're lucky to get a Bis/Rav EX party where people even allow BRD/MCH to join.

Tanks (especially warriors) are typically the diva of the duty anyway, especially in trials where they can just leave and get another queue instantly.


Maybe if you don't open with the most typical, popular way to be a complete douchebag right now, you won't feel like we're being sensitive when we leave, or tell you how you act.

[Snugglebutt]

I won't say it's good or bad game design but what I will say is if a player is ever wanting to just be a pure DPS bard just because their role in DF is set to DPS its probably not going to end well when they see songs cut their DPS anddd that people do want them to sing the songs because that's part of the 'bard's role' and that is just how the game is right now.

Of course they don't have to sing them but they may also end up booted by other players or disliked greatly especially if the wipes were caused due to low mp healers.... Soooo yeah.... I'd say bard is pretty darn supporty.

Currently bards are being booted from EX content and who knows...maybe alexander content in future too because of the low DPS so it's a lose/lose either way. Or at least that is how might feel to some right now until the class is fixed so (on thread topic) no wonder people who play the class are more sensitive to people like OP making piss poor jokes and insults directed at them just because of the class they play.

[BreathlessTao]

I'm not maining BRD and I have not even started MCH yet, but I do have a guess.... Maybe it's because they actually get booted from content, many times without a word or even a chance to prove themselves. Maybe it's because many people outright refuse to even take them to certain content - just today I saw a Bis Ex PF with "some jobs locked", ie. BRD and MCH could not join at all. And it was a practice/clear party, so not even one of those farms that require you to be at i300 in every job.
The core of the fault is probably the new tweaks/skills SE designed, but that's not to say people who choose to exclude them like that are entirely blameless.

[LambLich]

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Except were no longer in 1.0, hell i wonder how many spouting "support dps" even played 1.0. The penalty for using support is already built into the ability, why and how can anyone justify anything beyond that. I dont want the best dps but i at least expect to be comparable when the encounter doesn't require as much of our support abilities.

[Lillia]

Currently bards are being booted from EX content and who knows...maybe alexander content in future too because of the low DPS so it's a lose/lose either way. Or at least that is how might feel to some right now until the class is fixed so (on thread topic) no wonder people who play the class are more sensitive to people like OP making piss poor jokes and insults directed at them just because of the class they play.

Because our DPS as a utility DPS is too low, we're utility as i've been saying this whole time. The job has never been just one or the other but everytime this is brought up people say "wheres the utility/support role in DF?" Well there is none because you're still a DPS just a DPS with a large amount of supportive actions that make you a utility DPS still as Bard apparently was in 1.x from what someone else said.

As for why we're being booted; every job has a certain amount of DPS that people want them to hit, no one hits the exact same numbers as each other but normally hit a good amount between each class where they have distance but aren't too far behind, when content flies out with changes, people watchfully test the numbers on their own with their own tools.

Right now Bard probably fell a lot lower than what they were before the new rotations came in for all jobs and what I mean by they fell is... of course they rose up in numbers because of gear but for example if a Bard in 2.55 was like... 200 behind a Dragoon in the same ilvl... then if they suddenly became 400 apart from Dragoon in overall dps after 3.0 dropped with the same ilvl in new gear then people start worrying because there's a big change which was influenced from something. (in this case wanderer's minuet.)

We're behind other DPS from where people are use to seeing a bard at but that doesn't make us suddenly more DPS-y or anything, it just means that we need to get back up there. Bard is still a 100% utility job.

Now why is Minuet the problem? Because while every other class has now higher dps because they are with new gear and skills that may need a little tweaks of their own but still helps them utilize their DPS, we on the other hand only have one skill open to us, Sidewinder.

The rest of our skills are locked behind Minuet which has a cast time, stops actions if movement is done and has dps that can be reached easily with the song off. The fifth skill is Warden's which... I personally have no clue of what it is useful for myself as it feels utterly useless atm.

So we're left with one skill to utilize our DPS with and that is making us fall behind. If the cast time is fixed enough in the patch... maybe we'll be able to dish out a higher number but we'll still need to be careful about moving still so lets see how this plays out..

I'm hoping that Warden and Wanderer's gets tweaked enough to make differences and change our rotations/job in a beneficial way such as the other skills helped other jobs.

Except were no longer in 1.0, hell i wonder how many spouting "support dps" even played 1.0. The penalty for using support is already built into the ability, why and how can anyone justify anything beyond that. I dont want the best dps but i at least expect to be comparable when the encounter doesn't require as much of our support abilities.

So what are you looking for exactly? Ranger? We're not going to be comparable with a dragoon or black mage who are pure DPS, every class is made to be different with their own perks.

One of ours is the famous ability to be a jump and shoot man, while you're able to do that which no other job can do however... you're a bit below them and another is that you're able to support them with songs when they need TP/MP as well which lowers it more as long as the song is up.

Minuet was suppose to bring our DPS up a bit more and honestly with the cast time and the DPS increase rates.... it's very questionable and fumed at currently.... so when it's fixed then maybe you'll get closer to having more DPS at whatever the cost may end up being.

But until then... we're almost just as we were before with better gear and sidewinder. We dps as much as we can right now and give support when needed.