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  1. #1
    Player
    Meleoffs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    127
    Character
    Adreius Niluez
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by AiiroOkami View Post
    luizf_sp, I think that your opener is pretty good tbh, but I think you use too much skills oGCD while you could use GCD skills.
    I made some changes to resolve this problem :
    Always using Ifrit :
    Rouse + Spur before pull.
    Bio > Enkidle > Bio II > Radiant Shield > Miasma > Ruin II > Swiftcast > Fester > Shadow Flare > Painflare > Ruin II > Raging Strike > Ruin > Bio > Fester > Aetherflow > Pot > DW Trance > Ruin II > Tri-Disaster > Fester > Ruin III > Painflare > Ruin III > Fester > Deathflare

    With this opener you don't have that much downtime and you optimize your DPS with using a GCD skill whenever you can.
    Feel free to suggest some modifications, if we work together we can find the best opener
    A few inefficiencies I can spot initially from seeing how everything fits up on the spreadsheet.

    First, your TD doesn't line up with Trick Attack because you go into DWT later losing the extra 16% dmg it gains. Everything I've read says that dmg buffs are multiplicative rather than static increases, so this makes the 10% from trick attack a lot larger than the 10% it shows. Second, you can fit 3 more GCDs in DWT if you end with ruin 2. You'll be cutting it VERY close if you don't have enough spell speed but I was able to JUST barely do it in 145 gear and 180 gear has made it a lot easier. Third, there is an error in there. Your 3rd fester is impossible so I removed it.

    Lastly, the entire rotation (taken until your buffed dots wear off, including reapplication of new buffs) is only 146.44336 pps. Very much lower than the DWT rushes. Even with my inaccuracies on them the difference only amounts to like a 5 pps difference from what they should be. (I also used RS as 25% cause for some reason I was convinced it was, and it took a while to fix) If I take it until you end with DF like I do with the others, its only 162.98 pps. If I do the same thing I did with the others, yours comes out even worse. The worst part about it is, you lose a tick of bio at the beginning.

    SMN is very hard to get accurate numbers for because of the pets, if someone could let me know how much potency both enkindles are that would seriously help. Also, ifrit is worth about 40 dps more than garuda (195 dps ifrit vs 152 dps garuda) I had them sitting there attacking while I was hitting their abilities in the manner you would in raid for about 3 hours last night. They'll probably do a little bit more in raid but yeah.

    Funsies: https://youtu.be/rChZgQODfAE I apologize for the quality, the source video is higher quality but youtube nuked it. :/ This demonstrates the 6 GCD DWT, I hit Deathflare at 2s, and DWT wore off at 1s. I've tried ending with other spells but unless we can knock off 1.6s off 6 gcds I don't think we can. It would take the FCoB levels of SS that BLM had to do this. We could PROBABLY do it during Fey Wind but its still a stretch.

    EDIT: With Fey Wind it's possible to finish off DWT with ruin 3 instead of ruin 2, however it's extremely close and I wouldn't suggest doing it unless you know you have good latency or the spell speed to do it.

    The benefit of spell speed to GCDs has been reduced to a little over a third because of level 60. At 573 Spell speed I have 2.41 on the GCD, if the numbers were the same proportionately as they were in ARR it would read 2.3 or something. This means somewhere in the upper 700s of spell speed would be required to do Ruin 3 during DWT as an ending spell before Deathflare would be required. Somehow I don't see this being possible until way later.
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    Last edited by Meleoffs; 06-24-2015 at 02:03 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Havenchild's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    990
    Character
    Avalen Koma
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Meleoffs View Post

    First, your TD doesn't line up with Trick Attack because you go into DWT later losing the extra 16% dmg it gains. Everything I've read says that dmg buffs are multiplicative rather than static increases, so this makes the 10% from trick attack a lot larger than the 10% it shows.
    I very much disagree that you should throw in factors you have no control over in your spreadsheet (granted it is yours). Saying skills like TA will happen at X time, is not a guarantee as we do not control said players. I have raided with many different ninja in 2.55 and the Trick Attack timing was almost always differing among different players, not to mention, for the instances you do not have a Ninja present. Finding an optimal rotation to start with should be about elements you can control, Pot/ Buff timing. More to the point when you have elements like Garudas Contagion to increase the duration of snapshotted DoTs that could have benefited from other class skills. Throws a very big wrench in proper calculation of optimal openers.

    As for Enkindle potencies:

    Garuda is 250 one hit, Ifrit is 200 one hit + 20 x 5 DoT ticks
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    Last edited by Havenchild; 06-24-2015 at 01:54 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Meleoffs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    127
    Character
    Adreius Niluez
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Havenchild View Post
    I very much disagree that you should throw in factors you have no control over in your spreadsheet (granted it is yours). Saying skills like TA will happen at X time, is not a guarantee as we do not control said players. I have raided with many different ninja in 2.55 and the Trick Attack timing was almost always differing among different players, not to mention, for the instances you do not have a Ninja present. Finding an optimal rotation to start with should be about elements you can control, Pot/ Buff timing. More to the point when you have elements like Garudas Contagion to increase the duration of snapshotted DoTs that could have benefited from other class skills. Throws a very big wrench in proper calculation of optimal openers.

    As for Enkindle potencies:

    Garuda is 250 one hit, Ifrit is 200 one hit + 20 x 5 DoT ticks
    Every ninja I've raided with has had trick attack up before shadow fang. In an organized group having it up on the 4th GCD is really what you want to look for. That's how people found out the optimal opener for BLM was b3 t1. Ignoring buffs to find a rotation thats the highest potency outside of them is silly because it doesn't fully make use of the resources available to you and doesn't maximize your damage. Any ninja that doesn't have trick attack up before their shadowfang and before Aeolian edge was a bad ninja. Losing the 20 potency on shadowfangs base hit from trick alone is huge.
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