DEV REQUEST:DUEL/SPAR system

[Gilraen]

Yet another fallacy that keeps cropping up. The 'not wanting to see it'. People generally don't care about seeing something because it doesn't involve them. Glamours don't involve anyone except the glamoured (unless you're really put off by pixels, which would be a little silly). A more apt comparison that does involve others is gilsellers. Noone asks to receive gilseller /tells or friend requests, noone goes to towns looking to have their chat populated with gilseller /shouts, /yells or /says. Noone asks for any of it. Open world duels would be just that, PvPers looking for people to /duel, getting people who may or may not want any part of it involved. And just the remote chance of harassment from a refused or blocked /duel is one chance too many.

I think the whole argument can come to an agreeable close if this one question can be answered, "Why do you want to involve those that don't want to be?"

[Teryaani]

Well, so far I've suggested locking requests behind a minimum PvP Rank requirement among other things (having to be on each others Friendslist, similar to Mail Mog, simply having an opt in option that PvEers can simply never check, etc.), though this seems to be something the "No Duels!" crowd insists on ignoring. I imagine that would prevent you from being spammed though?

"People shouldn't be like cats", but we are. I think it gets worse online because of the lack of any physical feedback (expressions, tone). It's way easier to find a bucket (PVPer, Raider, Casual, etc) and toss people into it then to see a person's argument on it's own merits. I do it all the dang time and it's hard not to do it.

[Nalien]

Yes that's immature, but going "I want it and I don't care if it affects you!" is so much more mature.

Dude, I have gone out of my way to suggest duels in a way that PvE players would simply not be impacted. Perhaps if some of you actually acknowledged those points and tried to counter them (if you can), I'd be more incline to take your arguments seriously.

Unless your line of argument really boils down to "I don't want to see two people dueling at all!", in which case sure... My "Grow the fuck up" certainly doesn't come off as mature either, but then I'm having a hard time understanding the frankly absurd argument here. You're all acting like duels would suddenly become some common place thing, instead of something rarer than people doing Treasure Maps or Hunts. How often have Treasure Maps/Hunts interfered with peoples game play?

A more apt comparison that does involve others is gilsellers. Noone asks to receive gilseller /tells or friend requests, noone goes to towns looking to have their chat populated with gilseller /shouts, /yells or /says. Noone asks for any of it. Open world duels would be just that, PvPers looking for people to /duel, getting people who may or may not want any part of it involved. And just the remote chance of harassment from a refused or blocked /duel is one chance too many.

Lets go back to something I said earlier, and you all ignored earlier, because you're all so insistent on ignoring the restrictions we've suggested for duels;

You really think people are going to persist in going "Add me to your Friendlist and go do this quest and get Rank 10 in PvP so I can duel you, chicken!"? You really think that would be a thing? Really? Even if it was, that is what my Blacklist is for, albeit is currently a glorified RMT directory. That is what GMs are for. That is what numerous suggestions in this thread have been for, that you're ignoring in favour of going "But this Korean MMO had problems!".

[lordoftheapes79]

I hated this in WoW, especially when you were low level and max levels would constantly challenge you as you were walking into major cities. However, I get the appeal and enjoy a match from time to time. If this were implemented in specific PvP areas I'd be ok with it. Like at the wolves den.

[Gilthas]

How often have Treasure Maps/Hunts interfered with peoples game play?

Unlike what you're asking for, Treasure Maps/Hunts don't happen all over the map.

As for your suggestions on how this wouldn't affect PvE players, how about the suggestion that I made that, you know, is so much better than any of yours: ask for a dueling server.

[Nalien]

Unlike what you're asking for, Treasure Maps/Hunts don't happen all over the map.

They... Literally do... Hunts and Treasure Maps have randomized locations, Maps a bit less so but they're still something which happen all over the place.

As for your suggestions on how this wouldn't affect PvE players, how about the suggestion that I made that, you know, is so much better than any of yours: ask for a dueling server.

Probably because I can see glaring issues with that. For starters we'd all have to move server, doubt they'd make a new server so PvE players would have to move off server. How would Housing be handled? I have to move server for duels so I lose my Free Company estate and private house? Gee, I wonder why I don't even consider this suggestion...

Oh look, once again you dodged acknowledging a suggestion which effectively sweeps away the issue you all seem to have with duels... Honestly, just acknowledge the damn suggestion. If you have such an issue with people spamming duel requests, how does locking duels being an opt in system and minimum PvP Rank requirement not solve that issue? Do you really think a bunch of asshats are going to run around demanding you reach PvP Rank 10 so they can "1v1 me brah!"?

[Laerune]

I love to have a duel/sparring option and it could work in this game. To be honest, I was suprised that this option was not included when they started adding PvP to this game. I think these options would make it very viable to have a duel/sparring option:

1. If players dont want to duel, they have a option that automatic will block people from sending them a invite. Alot of people dont want to be called names for not wanting to duel, but we should understand that the players that insult others for not wanting to duel, are the same type of players that will insult for every silly thing. These type of players are small and loud.

2. Make certain locations a NO PVP zone. There will be no PvP near cities, quest hubs and when a Hunt spawns, there will be no PvP allowed near it. Alot of players are saying that they are bothered by the skill effects that will happen during a duel. But how is this any different from a player fighting a monster next to you and spamming alot of skills?

3. Dueling should not give any reward, its only meant to practice/duel with another player so you can test yourself against players or test out a new rotation with a player that will adapt. I think dueling is a great way to practice and improve your skills for the pvp duties like Frontlines where one can pvp for reward.

I think having two players queue up via a Duty Finder just so they can duel each other for few minutes is a little to extreme and a waste of server load. Aslong as they put the 3 points that I have featured in my post, I think dueling can work. I dont understand why people are against dueling, if they themself are not going to use it. I have also seen people complain that adding dueling would be a waste of rescourses, but as majority of the players already know, there is a PvP team focusing on only adding PvP content. So I dont understand how adding dueling would interfer with the raid team adding more endgame raiding content?

But, before we start thinking about adding dueling. How about we ask the developers to fix the current pvp that we have. Right now a queue takes around a hour for someone to get into a match, that is not normal and should be a sign that something is very wrong. I think the GC restriction is the major troublemaker here. With the GC restriction we have a longer queue, because the game is grouping up and waiting for certain GC to fill up. I also find the GC restriction bad, because it blocks me from being in the same group as my friends. Forcing players who want to pvp toghter to pick the same GC, because otherwise they can not play toghter is a bad design decision and frankly, I am suprised how this was approved to be added to the game in the first place. I think making the players heroes for hire would be a better angle, this way we the players can group up with whoever we want, instead of what we have right now.

TLDR: Dueling can work, its a common thing in mmorpgs and its weird that FFXIV does not have it. It can be used for improving your skills as a pvper or do some PvP while waiting in a queue. Aslong as they give players a way to block dueling request, make certain zones only for dueling and make dueling not give any token. I dont see how it can not work.

[raelgun]

YIt's the words 'open world' that is being disputed. If that was Yoshida's plan then he's had a lot of time to implement it.

Append:

Theres many things that has not been implemented into this game such as master looting, we are getting this but I consider this to be an important feature, we don't always get everything into the game as soon as possible.

I have answered this question, this game caters to many people and still has many more types of content to cater to people, these content will always be in front of others weather they like it or not, just like glamours for me yet its everywhere I look, as this is an mmo, it should contain as much type of content as it can and every thing is subjected to social scrutiny.

This game is not just about you, it is not designed around your view, it is designed by the developers view and how we enjoy the content, people are asking for more content, you have no right to remove that environment, you do not own it, everyone has equal rights to it.

People are playing this game because it is also an mmo, mmos by its nature have a large social elements to them, this will always cause positives or negatives no matter what, at the very least the pvpers who are wanting open world requested duelling/sparring are probably doing more open world content that are the staple of mmos then what you are wanting out of this game.

Also with more stuff to do in the open world allows for more player driven events, sometimes in WoW there were duelling matches that would take places in interesting locations like on a mountain top or in an area with water which reduces the effective movement speed. How can this be done in an instanced location ?, players should be encouraging for more varied and just more stuff to do in game, not denying it because of some silly exaggeration.

[Apoptic]

I'm glad this thread got resurrected. It gives me hope for the community that there are people out there willing to stand up against the strange players of this game who think they are justified in arguing against adding what should be very basic and expected features of an mmo. The fallacy of "it will take away time from adding (insert unrelated need here)" has been debunked. A separate PvP dev team is already in place. The argument that "it violates my personal aesthetic desires/violates some sort of nonexistent community harmony trope" is of course nonsense. Those asking for duels have already said that disabling dueling in cities is not a problem.Just let us step outside of town and we can do it there, out in the fields. The attempts to equate dueling with universally hated aspects of that game like gil sellers is also of course a decoy from the real issue some have with dueling; the fear of being made to look foolish and unskilled in a video game. The solution to this has already been presented; create either a quest or unlock of some sort to enable dueling to those who are interested, and the inability to initiate a duel with a locked character. A toggle should also be included to disable this feature, indicating disinterest in duels. Its simple. If you still have a problem with dueling after this solution, which will completely and totally prevent you from being "forced" to duel anyone or even seeing a request, then i'm not sure what to say. After all that, if you are still so afraid of being mocked for not having it unlocked, to the point that you insist on no one else being able to do something in the game they would greatly enjoy, you need to get counseling for your emotional immaturity issues.

[Gilthas]

They... Literally do... Hunts and Treasure Maps have randomized locations, Maps a bit less so but they're still something which happen all over the place.

No... They... Literally don't.

Probably because I can see glaring issues with that. For starters we'd all have to move server, doubt they'd make a new server so PvE players would have to move off server. How would Housing be handled? I have to move server for duels so I lose my Free Company estate and private house? Gee, I wonder why I don't even consider this suggestion...

Yes, you're right, lets inconvenience everyone else that joined a game without open-world PvP because you don't want to be inconvenienced. People that want to join their friends on other servers face those issues too. Not to mention the overwhelming advantage of having a PvP server: so much easier to find people to PvP with.

Oh look, once again you dodged acknowledging a suggestion which effectively sweeps away the issue you all seem to have with duels... Honestly, just acknowledge the damn suggestion. If you have such an issue with people spamming duel requests, how does locking duels being an opt in system and minimum PvP Rank requirement not solve that issue? Do you really think a bunch of asshats are going to run around demanding you reach PvP Rank 10 so they can "1v1 me brah!"?

The problem with dueling isn't just dueling requests. It's having dueling happen everywhere you want it to. It changes the game whether you want to admit it or not, a change that I wouldn't welcome.