DEV REQUEST:DUEL/SPAR system

[Nalien]

I love how most people are citing this can happen because of DCUO but forget one main difference between that and this game. In DCUO its a good vs evil game. In this game none of us are the bad guys. We are all the warriors of light.

That's OK, we love how most people citing duels can't happen because we're the Warrior of Light are ignoring the fact that we actually do duel in the main scenario quests;

Last I checked the "spirit" of Final Fantasy and of Erozea is just fine with with us testing our martial ability against one another.

A "Good verses Evil" system would only really be required for persistent open world PvP. That isn't what duels are, duels are pretty much exactly what Triple Triad offers us, just playing with blades and magic, rather than a children's card game.

[Gilraen]

That isn't what duels are, duels are pretty much exactly what Triple Triad offers us, just playing with blades and magic, rather than a children's card game.

And have you tried playing a game of Triple Triad out in the ghost cave in Middle La Noscea? On High Bridge in East Thanalan? What about Hammermill in North Shroud? Triple Triad can be played in a number of venues, but not everywhere. I and many others I know have tried.

[Nalien]

And have you tried playing a game of Triple Triad out in the ghost cave in Middle La Noscea? On High Bridge in East Thanalan? What about Hammermill in North Shroud? Triple Triad can be played in a number of venues, but not everywhere. I and many others I know have tried.

What's you're point? They set specific places where Triple Triad can be played, they can do the exact same for PvP duels. Just instead of allowing them in crowded places, only allow them out in the wilderness. Make it so you cannot challenge someone to a duel in Revenant's Toll or Saint Coinach's Find, but you can at say, Camp Revenant's Toll, or that part of Mor Dhona where we had a duel with Hoary Boulder in the main scenario quests.

[Gilraen]

What's you're point? They set specific places where Triple Triad can be played, they can do the exact same for PvP duels. Just instead of allowing them in crowded places, only allow them out in the wilderness. Make it so you cannot challenge someone to a duel in Revenant's Toll or Saint Coinach's Find, but you can at say, Camp Revenant's Toll, or that part of Mor Dhona where we had a duel with Hoary Boulder in the main scenario quests.

Point being that there are already venues. That's not what's being asked for, though. Thus...

I don't think anyone has a problem with duels, just not open world duels. The little arena in Ul'dah, Wolves' Den, by all means please. Duel to your heart's content. But leave me, and everyone else not interested, out of it.

[Nalien]

Oh, so you're one of those "I don't even want to see duels going on" people. Sorry, but it is hard to take that complaint seriously.

Question. What is the difference between someone doing a Levequest in Mor Dhona and someone having a duel in Mor Dhona?

Don't bother with "PvPers will bug PvEers for duels", because we've already seen numerous suggestions in this thread that would prevent that... So yeah, what is the difference? Why is it OK to see someone grinding PvE content but not two people PvPing? By everyones own admission, PvP in this game is not popular, so it isn't like we'd see a massive amount even dueling to begin with... All I see is a bias against PvP, which really isn't a solid argument. Again, very hard to take such complains seriously.

[Gilraen]

Understand, this isn't about not wanting to see it. This is about not being involved. I don't like PvP and no amount of duel request spam is going to change that. But if duels go open world, and there's no means of filtering myself out of that chaos, then there's going to be problems. Further, there's a big difference. When I see someone using a leve I genuinely want to help them. You used to be able to in the Betas, not sure why Square changed that. Especially the reinforcement leves, those can be brutal if the runner succeeds in getting away. A duel, on the other hand, isn't about doing a quick quest for exp. It's just PvP, and we have venues for that already that people have been complaining about as being 'underused'.

[Nalien]

I don't like PvP and no amount of duel request spam is going to change that. But if duels go open world, and there's no means of filtering myself out of that chaos, then there's going to be problems.

A solid portion of this entire thread has been us (PvPers) suggesting ways in which duels can be implemented without PvE players getting sent requests. Way I see it you should have no complaints, unless you think there is a problem with the numerous suggestions that have been presented in this thread?

Off the top of my head;
-Locking sending and accepting duel requests behind a certain PvP Rank, or a certain quest.
-Having an opt in process in which you need to select that you want to receive duel requests.
-Locking sending duel requests behind the Friendlist.
-Using the Blacklist for its intended purpose rather than simply having it as the RMT List.

I'm sure there were more. Heck, the majority of people cluster to places like Revenant's Toll, where we don't even want duels in the first place. Our own suggestion prevents sending duel requests in that location...

Wolves' Den and the Coliseum are nice and all, but they'd have to be instanced. Aside from the fact that it would be annoying to go "Want to duel?" and then have to travel to these locations, rather than taking a couple steps outside Revenant's Toll and being good to go, there is also the issue of space. Either they're instanced or we get a cluster f*ck of people dueling there, one of the main selling points for duels (to me) is the ability to watch and do them between queues, instances would destroy that utility. Then there is the issue of battlefield variety, (almost) anywhere in Eorzea offers an incredibly wealth of locations to duel in. Wolves' Den and the Coliseum offer the same boring ring...

[KisaiTenshi]

A solid portion of this entire thread has been us (PvPers) suggesting ways in which duels can be implemented without PvE players getting sent requests.

Let me use Mabinogi as an example of how gawd-awful "dueling" PvP is (the game was Open PvP for Elves and Giants at one point.)
1) Players will PvP in areas entirely to lag the area down
2) Players will leverage bugs in PvP AOE's to kill everyone not involved (Think about how Bane and Shadow Flare work)
3) Players will spam people looking for duels, and if they don't have duels turned on, will then bug them in all the chat windows for it.

There are some people who are very hardcore about wanting to be the best PvP'er on their server, and will actively piss off players, increasing the griefing reports.


If a game is not already open-world PvP, and the existing PvP content is underutilized, you're just going to chase people away from the game by allowing people to be obnoxious everywhere.

[Nalien]

So let me get this straight, you're using a dime a dozen Korean MMO in your example? Okay....

1) Lag? Really? We're back to "PvPers will cause so much lag!!!"? Hunts cause far more lag than duels could ever dream of. Lag would make duels fairly irritating to actually participate in anyway. If people want to lag an area down, they'd not even bother with that, they'd just spam Holy/Ring of Thorns/etc. The amount of people you'd even need to pull such a thing off makes this point completely laughable at best.
2) Seriously? Bugs now? Levequests already have the means to solve that issue anyway, again; Most everything required to implement duels is already present in game. I'm honestly amazed you're even making this point, you rank SE up there with the companies that squat down and squeeze out those Korean grindfests?
3) And we're back to the "People are mean" line of argument... Sigh... You really think people are going to persist in going "Add me to your Friendlist and go do this quest and get Rank 10 in PvP so I can duel you, chicken!"? You really think that would be a thing? Really? Even if it was, that is what my Blacklist is for, albeit is currently a glorified RMT directory. That is what GMs are for. That is what numerous suggestions in this thread have been for, that you're ignoring in favour of going "But this Korean MMO had problems!".

Existing PvP isn't underused either. Queues are an issue, but Frontlines at least gets used fairly frequently, as in I can have dozens of matches every day and, based off friends queuing as well, there are matches I'm not getting into as well. Wolves' Den is the only real issue (which is why it is getting some long needed love in 3.1/3.2), but even that has seen somewhat of a revival on some data centers due to a community driven effort to bring it back. A quick look over the Lodestone Frontlines Standing gives me the impression people can get 50~150 matches in a week. Should I compare that to something like the endgame raid completion rate, or have I already made my point?

Seriously, show the the precedent in this game for such obnoxious griefing. I have yet to see a single person act so ridiculously when it comes to the current form of dueling we have (Triple Triad) and I imagine far more people care about MGP than care about PvP. Do you think there are people out there who will just sense the fact that dueling is added to this game (in a restrictive manner) and all the asshats in the internet will just flock to the game to bully people? I am honestly curious. Again, this just seems like a strong bias against PvP, rather than a rational argument. It would help if you actually addressed the suggestions at hand, rather than out right ignoring them to go on some absurd tangent about some crappy MMO nobody has ever heard of.

The Marty McFly GIF is a nice little touch, I'll give you that. Perfectly sums up the image of the supposed FFXIV griefer for me; scrawny little wimps, rather than any serious problem.

[Nadirah]

That's not what they were referring to. I played DCUO and had duel invites disabled... but that didn't stop people from spamming my chat declaring all manner of things about me for not accepting their duel.

I needed a UI mod in wow to decline them.

Can't afk outside a city without duel request spam.