DEV REQUEST:DUEL/SPAR system

[Hypie]

Well at least you're honest about it, but FYI, PvP is balanced separately to PvE in this game, so... What's your point? Duels wouldn't suddenly cause SE to balance PvE in line with PvP...

Least I can do for you That SE is really separating the Skills for PvE and PvP is like Christmas Eve all over again but still...that hatred won't be gone so fast...it's like nidhoggs fury over his stolen eye or something

Have to ask you this in all honesty, if a class is found to be over powered in PVE and PVP had nothing to do with it, how do you feel about that?

Of Course i would feel like "they need to fix that" But PvE Players don't go around like "whine whine this dragoon (example) has this jump where i cant hit him and he kills me with that EVERY TIME CUZ I CANT HIT HIM" That the Whiner in Question is more likely simply too dumb for that is out of Question. He's the King! He has the full PvP Gear! You know what i mean...

PvE Players just be more like "Wow thats overtuned...let's use it the best we can in raid for our progess until they balance it." Of Course when they nerf it there will be always some of that Class that whine about it in the Forums.

[raelgun]

PvE Players just be more like "Wow thats overtuned...let's use it the best we can in raid for our progess until they balance it." Of Course when they nerf it there will be always some of that Class that whine about it in the Forums but...you have that always.

You have not been PVEing in raiding much have you, the competitiveness in PVE raiding is pretty high, and people use item level to the same affect, I have always found the PVE crowd to contain less honourable players then PVP ones in my experience and I come from a WoW hard mode raiding background with WOL rankings at current content at the time and a few PVP ranked titles but those are nothing special.

I have also completed PVE content in this game too with a T13 clear, and with the experience in both elements, PVE players are much much worse are the whining then PVP players.

[Hypie]

You have not been PVEing in raiding much have you, the competitiveness in PVE raiding is pretty high, and people use item level to the same affect, I have always found the PVE crowd to contain less honourable players then PVP ones in my experience and I come from a WoW hard mode raiding background with WOL rankings at current content at the time and a few PVP ranked titles but those are nothing special.

I have also completed PVE content in this game too with a T13 clear, and with the experience in both elements, PVE players are much much worse are the whining then PVP players.

I have never seen anything like that until now o,o And if they really bitch around who has the longest epeen...i shrug it off and say "immature brats..."

[raelgun]

Why i am against Duelling? Pure Hatred against PvP. I played many MMO's and enjoyed many Classes until....

PvP Balance Whiners ruined everything.

So NO to Duelling and NO to any PvP related Stuff. Im really happy that PvP in XIV is more like joke than a serious Corner of the Game.

Gotta be honest with you, this game is balanced around end game and has pvp dedicated skills, in my experience I have seen PVE balance ruin PVP then the otherway around, PVP balance barely affects PVE since they adjust extra parameters to adjust for this just like they currently do here.

Have to ask you this in all honesty, if a class is found to be over powered in PVE and PVP had nothing to do with it, how do you feel about that?

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

PvP Balance Whiners ruined everything.

So NO to Duelling and NO to any PvP related Stuff. Im really happy that PvP in XIV is more like joke than a serious Corner of the Game.

The changes they've make to classes / skills in pvp don't effect classes in pve.

Some Examples:
Regen and Medica II can't be stacked.
All Stuns, sleeps and binds have a reduced duration
Bard Damage is affected by distance from target (too close and your damage is low, too far and your damage is low, in the sweet spot your damage is max)
Summoners can't resurrect people
etc.

Dueling is fun—and whether its balanced or not—players sometimes want to beat on their friends (or make new ones so so they can beat on them too).
I'm all for it. I don't think it should be allowed in main city states though. Seems too crowded.

[Kikosho]

Apparently a DRG fighting a Morbol and a DRG fighting a MNK is vastly different with the latter being cancer to the eyes.

[Nalien]

Apparently a DRG fighting a 5th Cohort Secutor and a DRG fighting a MNK is vastly different with the latter being cancer to the eyes.

Amended, for obvious reasons.

Gonna have to say no, because after the whining that is the wow forums on "x class is op", I'm glad to not see it here.

This game has PvP already though, the reason you don't see "x class is op" is because PvP is handled separately. Duels would not change the current situation in the slightest. We already actually have these complains in the PvP section, though I can't say how it is in comparison to WoW (seems tame here to me). Since it already isn't affecting you, how would it suddenly with duels?

I think the best compromise would be to have an instanced 1v1 arena..

Given current PvP queues are bad enough, we don't really want them to be made worse by having another mode to queue taking people out of the current ones. The main reason most of us want duels is as something to do between queues, and we've suggested numerous ways to avoid PvE players being impacted (locking it behind a quests, or friendlist (like Mail Mog), having a minimum PvP Rank requirement, etc. etc.).

A better compromise would be to simply section off a (new) part of somewhere like Wolves' Den Pier for it, though that has its own heap of issues. Lag first and foremost, funneling all the PvPers into a small area for duels is just going to negatively impact the duels. Spreading them out across the (lets face it, mostly unused) open world seems much more appealing. Gives us much more variety in battlefield as well, and requires no real extra work on SEs part, like new maps/instances/servers would.

[Allyrion]

A better compromise would be to simply section off a (new) part of somewhere like Wolves' Den Pier for it, though that has its own heap of issues. Lag first and foremost, funneling all the PvPers into a small area for duels is just going to negatively impact the duels. Spreading them out across the (lets face it, mostly unused) open world seems much more appealing. Gives us much more variety in battlefield as well, and requires no real extra work on SEs part, like new maps/instances/servers would.

That's basically my alternate solution. I guess I didn't describe it enough.
I mean, it doesn't need to be in the Wolve's Den either. It could be by Halatali or something as a fight club area.

As I said, a non-instanced arena. I only said "wait" because you can fight 1v1 and everyone can watch like a colosseum.
But it might be better if there are a few fighting pits so more people can fight at the same time.

I don't think people will be using that kind of thing all the time, so you shouldn't have to wait.

Anyway, I think that alternative is best because I think duels are fine.

But I also want PVP to stay in its box.

[Gilraen]

Honestly, the absurd notion here is thinking 'see=involved'. If I drive by an accident I can see that there was an accident but it involves me not. Yet if I was in said accident I'd clearly be involved. I don't care about the things I see in the game anywhere near as much as is being made out to be. A sudden Fat Chocobo flash mob isn't going to stop me from turning in a quest, a Fate popping up along the road isn't going to force me to stop and turn around. Someone walking up to me to try and start a duel, though, is going to interrupt me and potentially ruin my day. Hopefully they won't be insulted when I decline and go back to what I was doing. I can't say for certain that things will go that smoothly, noone can. It's that uncertainty that needs be addressed before open world duels will be accepted enough to not be so vehemently opposed.

I think the whole argument can come to an agreeable close if this one question can be answered, "Why do you want to involve those that don't want to be?"

[Nalien]

Honestly, the absurd notion here is thinking 'see=involved'. If I drive by an accident I can see that there was an accident but it involves me not. Yet if I was in said accident I'd clearly be involved. I don't care about the things I see in the game anywhere near as much as is being made out to be. A sudden Fat Chocobo flash mob isn't going to stop me from turning in a quest, a Fate popping up along the road isn't going to force me to stop and turn around.

Thank you for being reasonable. Good to know some people who aren't interested in duels are aware of how absurd the "I don't want to see it" complaint is.

Someone walking up to me to try and start a duel, though, is going to interrupt me and potentially ruin my day. Hopefully they won't be insulted when I decline and go back to what I was doing. I can't say for certain that things will go that smoothly, noone can. It's that uncertainty that needs be addressed before open world duels will be accepted enough to not be so vehemently opposed.

That's why we've suggested things like locking it behind a quest/minimum PvP rank/Friendslist/etc., that way if you're completely uninterested you have the tools to be completely out of the loop as far as duels go, or more accurately we (PvPers) would have the tools to duel each other, with you opting to never even get the tools, meaning you'd be unaffected.

I'll admit, some asshats might get aggressive about seeking out a duel with someone clearly not interested, but that should be an exception and it should be something a GM/Blacklist can deal with, if the quest/PvP Rank requirement doesn't already. I really doubt, with such restrictions, people would use duels to harass. It would simply be too much trouble. Blind requests (like we actually have with Triple Triad) would be an issue, but that's not what we've been suggesting.

I think the whole argument can come to an agreeable close if this one question can be answered, "Why do you want to involve those that don't want to be?"

We don't. We've been suggesting ways that would mean PvE players would be completely out of the loop for duels, only people interested in duels would get involved. Any serious PvPer should have no interest in challenging a PvE player. I'd gladly accept a challenge from a PvE player to get them into it and try and teach them a few things, but I imagine you don't even have the PvP skills set on your hotbar? Yeah, I have zero interest in challenging people like that. I simply want to challenge friends/people in PvP linkshells, either to pass the time during PvP queues, to practice (I really don't want to WHM in Frontlines because my learning would negatively impact my team), or for fun. I don't want to get people who are uninterested involved, that's why I've constantly been suggesting ways to prevent PvE players from being harassed.