Shortage of tanks a myth - thoughts?

[MirielleLavandre]

Hi all,
I keep seeing more and more posts about how people hope DRK will help out on dps queues, or on how tanks are abused or made to feel terrible, or how people are actually afraid and anxious when trying to tank. This has made me think, and post in some of those threads, about the state of tanks in this game. My theory is this, and I may well be wrong, but based on people I know and have been in FC with across many servers both NA and JPN, it seems that there is no real shortage of tanks... just a shortage of tanks willing to put up with Duty Finder.

Many, many people I know have at least 1 tank classes leveled to 50 and at at least i100 with the UAT 110 weapon -- plenty enough for everything save maybe some SCoB or FCoB - definitely enough for experts and everything else. The thing is - -all of these people, myself included, don't set foot in DF and only use our tanks to help our friends and FC or LS mates who may need tanks. Even people who main tank jobs often only do so for their FC.

So, for new players and others who worry that there are not enough tanks...I would really encourage you all to find a nice FC or LS as it seems, at least to me, that is where many of the tanks are who you will never see as they never go into DF and thus perpetuate the idea that there just aren't enough ^^ Thoughts?

[Svalitz]

I think definitely that the game would benefit from players in DF treating their tanks with more respect and NOT expect perfection or speed runs every time.

If tanks were viewed as group leaders and necessary members (which...they are) and treated respectfully during runs then people wouldn't be so afraid of the responsibility.

It's jerkwads who yell at the tanks and tell them off about not playing the way they want them to (usually demanding pulls of every monster in the dungeon, then getting mad when the tank dies) that have ruined people willing to sign up with random folks.

[Kosmos992k]

OK here goes.

The shortage is both real and a myth. It is a myth because many, many players have leveled a tank job to 50, and geared it decently. However,the shortage of tanks is very real when it comes to players actively playing a tank job as their main job.

Unfortunately many people I know who play tank and healer roles have become so discouraged that they avoid multi-player content except with good friends, or simply Play DPS or just craft. That is because of the stress of playing the tank (and healer) role. Too many times they have been blamed berated or abused, and too many times forced into an unwanted speed run, or summarily kicked for not speed running. The blame game is probably the chief culprit.

Tanks now have a dubious reputation because a greater number of tanks than before are playing tank for the short Q, and really don't care for playinng the role. Sadly that reputation has taken a nose dive becuase over time, some tank players got fed up with blame and started replying in kind. There are also a proportion of tank players who are simply not nice people, and have no problem with that. Couple that with the re-use of so much content to fulfill personal progression goals in the relic progression and you have a perfect recipe for enough of the tanks playing to be selfish jerks that it affects how other tanks are viewed and treated.

When you find yourself on the receiving end of that, even though you are not one of those selfish, "don't care" tanks, it sucks the fun out of the game even further. That just makes it even more unlikely that people want to play tank. The same is true of healers. The stress of being expected to know every fight perfectly, know every turn of every dungeon, know the best speed route, managing mass pulls when you don't overgear content by 40ilvls, and so forth doesn't help much either.

So, yeah, the tank shortage is a myth, if you look at how many players have PLD or WAR at 50, but it's very real if you look at how many are willing to regularly insert their head into the noose of Duty Finder.

[Kathryn]

As a main tank myself i admit to avoiding DF unless grouped with people i know.

[Elim]

If tanks were viewed as group leaders and necessary members (which...they are) and treated respectfully during runs then people wouldn't be so afraid of the responsibility.

There's lotttttsss of people who say "you're not the leader just because you're the tank", "you're not the boss of me" and tell tanks what to pull, when to pull, how to pull and when they don't do things their way(or if the tank is undergeared and can't handle it) they freak out. There was a 50 page thread on this forum, with waves of people pretty much posting that. If there ever was a thread to discourage new tanks, that was one.

I main tank on my alt. You just have to grow a thick skin, and/or leave if someone is rude to you. I play to have fun, and if someone is rude to me I leave because it stops being fun at that point.

As for a lack of tanks, there's a lack even if lots of people have lv 50 tanks. Most people get their tank to 50 then stop playing it, or play it very, very rarely.

[Kuurei]

OK here goes.

The shortage is both real and a myth. It is a myth because many, many players have leveled a tank job to 50, and geared it decently. However,the shortage of tanks is very real when it comes to players actively playing a tank job as their main job.

Unfortunately many people I know who play tank and healer roles have become so discouraged that they avoid multi-player content except with good friends, or simply Play DPS or just craft. That is because of the stress of playing the tank (and healer) role. Too many times they have been blamed berated or abused, and too many times forced into an unwanted speed run, or summarily kicked for not speed running. The blame game is probably the chief culprit.

Tanks now have a dubious reputation because a greater number of tanks than before are playing tank for the short Q, and really don't care for playinng the role. Sadly that reputation has taken a nose dive becuase over time, some tank players got fed up with blame and started replying in kind. There are also a proportion of tank players who are simply not nice people, and have no problem with that. Couple that with the re-use of so much content to fulfill personal progression goals in the relic progression and you have a perfect recipe for enough of the tanks playing to be selfish jerks that it affects how other tanks are viewed and treated.

When you find yourself on the receiving end of that, even though you are not one of those selfish, "don't care" tanks, it sucks the fun out of the game even further. That just makes it even more unlikely that people want to play tank. The same is true of healers. The stress of being expected to know every fight perfectly, know every turn of every dungeon, know the best speed route, managing mass pulls when you don't overgear content by 40ilvls, and so forth doesn't help much either.

So, yeah, the tank shortage is a myth, if you look at how many players have PLD or WAR at 50, but it's very real if you look at how many are willing to regularly insert their head into the noose of Duty Finder.

Pretty much the gist of it right here, honestly.

[Gamer3427]

I'd also like to say that out of the tanks I do get in the DF, most are just using it to get faster groups. And as such tend to be complete (insert derogatory term here) to anyone they come across, and are focused purely on speed running even if the other players actively tell them that they're new to the run. They're especially brutal to healers that aren't "good enough" too keep them alive when they're pulling groups that are large enough that they do as much damage in two hits as the tanks have total health. My guess is that this is a large part of why so many DPS and Healers are hard on the rare tanks that aren't like that, as most players using the DF will have had more bad experiences with tanks than good ones. This in turn creates the situation that makes people not want to tank in the DF except for those who are just in it for the quick run, and the cycle continues.......

EDIT: I would like to say that I'm just judging this based on my experience, and seeing how people react to tanks in such experience. I heal and DPS mostly, and have only tanked low level Guildhests at the most, so I'm purely talking from a "bystander" perspective.....

[Kosmos992k]

As a main tank myself i admit to avoiding DF unless grouped with people i know.

What I think many people fail to realize is that tanks are not there simply a a resource for them to use and abuse, we are players just as they are, we want to enjoy the game and play just as much as anyone else. But when tanks are treated as simply a means to an end, a resource...well not to put too fine a point on it, we not only feel the painful disrespect, but also loose any incentive to be helpful for fear of further pain. It's kind of a vicious circle because it really takes a thick skin or a "don't care" attitude to play in DF regularly.

To be clear, I like to be able to sleep at night, so if I'm running into issues in DF group, it's better for me personaly to eat a 30 minute penaltyand drop out, than it is to fight fire with fire, so to speak. As someone else put it, I play to have fun, and relax, when it ceases to be fun, or becomes personally stressful, it's time for me to do something else for a while instead of getting dragged into some needless confrontation.

[Svalitz]

I main PLD and often use the Duty Finder for Expert Roulette dailies.

Since I've been doing it for a while now and I'm pretty overgeared for things I don't get much trouble from PuGs, but the times I have I just don't put up with their crappy attitudes.

I basically just say; Look. I'm here doing my job, we're running things the way I want because I'M the one in charge here, and without me you're screwed. Don't use DF if you want things like Speed Runs or done perfectly. Deal with it.

Only once have I full on left a party because of the bad attitude. Normally it's one person, and telling them to sit down and shut up will work.

And don't even get me started on when BLMs or BRDs attack everything full on- then get mad at you when as tank you aren't ONLY hitting the Flash button 10000x during the run. LEARN TO DO YOUR JOBS in a TEAM environment, not FIRE II barrage until stuff's dead. The intention of the dev team was never for speed runs and OP DPS that just obliterates large packs of mobs. That is players finding loopholes in the design and wanting everything done NOW NOW NOW, rather than at the pace intended

[Elladie]

I levelled WAR to 50 and it's geared high enough for most - if not all - of SCOB. I also think playing it is great fun. But I never ever play it except with friends. For all the reasons outlined by the OP. I would rather - *thinks of something so horrible and loathsome, it makes me want to throw up* - eat TWENTY plates of brussel sprouts than do roulettes as a tank. I do run them as a healer, however, and I am also SICK UNTO DEATH of tanks who think a speed-run is mandatory. Even if a) they're not really geared for it b) they can't hold hate on that many mobs c) they can't get out of AOEs for TOFFEE (or cookies) d) they don't seem to realise they can make my job a bit easier by popping a cooldown here and there, and e) the BRD is wearing a lvl 1 ring and only uses Straight Shot and Heavy Shot ( yeah, okay, that last one only happened once).

If a tank asks me if I'm okay with a speedrun, that's an automatic commendation. Not because speedruns are my thing - I'm happy to go slow - but because it demonstrates that there's a player behind all that heavy armour who's actually stopped to think things through.

I know that a lot - if not most - of these tanks are only attempting to do a speedrun because they think that's what's expected of them. But please don't. Just ask. Please. I'd really much rather deal with smaller groups of mobs and fling out some deeps of my own than give myself RSI spamming Physick because your HP plummets in the direction of zero faster than the speed of light!