RIP Ninja

[Evangela]

lol that sluggish tank actually uploaded it.

now the world can see how slow he is.

[Amatsuhira]

lol that sluggish tank actually uploaded it.

now the world can see how slow he is.

This comment along with video that i don't even need to see are exactly what's wrong with DF and Tank abuse. Thank you for allowing the truth to be revealed.

[RiceisNice]

lol that sluggish tank actually uploaded it.

now the world can see how slow he is.

I don't understand why people need to compound onto the issue by slowing down their dps/trolling if the tank is being slow. Unless he was doing it out of malice, you're equally, if not more in the wrong here because you didn't bother communicating (by what I see in the video) and going on your own whim to delay the party.

Not to mention that he went in as a pre-made of 3 players, it just goes to show just how much longer a single player can slow down the dungeon if they were doing it intentionally or with malice.

[Taranok]

That nin...really is bad. I have never seen nin perform that bad before...or was it just a troll attempt for the whole dungeon? At the end I was pretty sure it was trolling though, auto attack the boss, lb the add, dance in the middle of the arena.

I noticed the mudra sequence, it's pretty slow. Is it the mudra lag people were talking about? Is it that bad in na server that you have to input them that slow?

It depends on the time of day, ISP, what routers you're shoved through, server status, etc. I definitely can notice a pretty huge difference just off of the first one alone, where I have near-perfect mudra lag at night, but during the day it can be completely unplayable unless I use something like WTFast.

NA is so vast, and the quality of ISPs so variable, that to say it's normal is a lie, but to say it's not normal is also a lie. It's highly variable, and the inconsistency can be infuriating at times, even if it's just shifting from a 0.5s gcd to a 0.6s gcd.

[ShanaShirayuki]

Until everyone understands this, I will continue to say it, since this is really the problem.



Right now, there are 3 MDPS classes:

The Monk, which requires so many positionals per minute I wouldn't even know how to accurately quantify it other than a loose guess of 18 positionals per minute making the assumption of 3 out of every 5 abilities per 10 seconds is a positional, which is likely not correct but seems good enough for the purposes of debate.

The Dragoon, which requires a mere 5 positionals per minute (3 heavy thrusts and 2 impulse drives per minute).

And Ninja, which requires a mere one positional per minute. It happens to be the largest pass/fail positional in the entire game at the present, though the only positional we know that will be close to it in pass fail is the Warrior's perfect parry, interestingly enough.

When you examine this, people who love positionals already have a class in the MDPS archetype. People who are okay with, but don't enjoy too many, have the Dragoon. People who hate positionals but want a melee DPS class have the Ninja if they can begrudgingly accept a mere one.

You are basically telling anyone who hates positionals but loves melee DPS to play RDPS classes, which many people do not enjoy.

Saying "Their positionals are bonus" does not alleviate the fact that they are required to maximize DPS as a MDPS class. They just don't completely cripple your DPS like they used to back when they were hard requirements. And to anyone who doesn't enjoy this, they are basically out of luck, because everyone wants the Ninja to be turned into a pseudo Dragoon or a Monk without giving anything in return. So instead of having even one class cater to the people who don't like positionals but love MDPS, you are saying they just shouldn't be MDPS because the people who love positionals and RDPS classes want something different from the Monk or Dragoon in style, but functionally similar in gameplay.

How can you not see this as a problem?

I agree with this. Granted I've mained MNK before NIN so this won't be a problem for me, but adding positionals to a class that people may play because the lack thereof (excluding SATA) and possibly forcing them onto something else, is wrong.

[RiceisNice]

I agree with this. Granted I've mained MNK before NIN so this won't be a problem for me, but adding positionals to a class that people may play because the lack thereof (excluding SATA) and possibly forcing them onto something else, is wrong.

It's not exclusive to ninja though, see bard who also need to micromanage something that's outside of their original class scope (Wanderer's Minuet compared to say... a BLM). If you wanted to maximize dps, you'd have to play the class more efficiently with the new tools they're given.

The three melees though do have some different gimmicks that still keep them apart, primarly the buffs/debuffs, their form of damage output, and management of other abilties (mudras, jumps, and chakra).

Comparable to BRD with wanderer's and BLM. They both have the same concept of dps (stationary/cast bars), but fundamentally work different

[silentwindfr]

it's nothing comparable with what get bard...
bard will have an OPTION to increase them dps when they don't need to move... outside this, while the fight will recquire a lot of movement, they will retain them capacity to deal damage while moving. that a looooot different of what get ninja.

here the ninja will simply change it core gameplay by adding more positional, recquiring for people to relearn the basic of them cycle (if not change it). depending of the positional recquirement, we will need to maybe rethink the order of the cycle and instead to have a weaponskill system based on the priority, we will get a fixed cycle. based on where we need to be for be the most efficient. it's not an option, because this positional will not increase our damage, but allows us to do the same damage that we already do.

indeed the number of positional needed can be something close of the dragoon, but we will need to wait and see in 17 day for know. but if it's too close of the monk and ask waay too much positional it risk to be a trouble.

and it don't change the valid statement saying that a large part of the ninja community did choose this jobs, because of the lack of positional, they did choose this jobs, because it was different! why not respect this player? why not work on the difference that had the ninja? i have said it countless time. i find the way to handle the ninja by the dev. team, more specially the battle team, quite rude against the ninja community, ignoring our need and concern about the jobs and proposing us an expansion experience really underwhelming and far less developped than what did get the other jobs.

ps: something important that needed to be said, on the 5 skill that we will get (because it was confirmed that the jobs will get a skill every 2 level) we do have 2 situational skill.... the two threat tool... by the way, why add us 2 skill for this? one was enough... why add us 2 skill like this?

the skill list is mostly know now:
- musou sandan, a weapon skill that hit 3 time (not really clear)
- kage-watari, threat transfert skill
- issou, a skill for increase weapon skill
- ***, the weaponskill for refresh huton
- ***, a skill for reduce the threat of one teammate.

pss: ohh and another point... why we didn't get more clarification? even bard did receive it... but ninja don't seems to deserve any explanation or even a simple message type: "we did heard the community"... no the way to handle the situation for me is as disastrous than for the personal housing.

[RiceisNice]

So you're basically saying if ninja wanted to be efficent on dps, they're forced to use their new actions with the positional?
Is that not the same concept as what bard is getting? that I mean end game is probably going to be adjusted to have them required to manage wanderer's to maximize bard's dps to be relatively the same as what we're seeing now. Bards have entire actions that require Minuet to be used...I hardly consider that to be as little as an "option".

And some people played bard because of the freedom of movement when it came to dps. If they wanted to maximize it in 3.0, managing wanderer's is going to be mandatory which forces them to play stationary when possible, as well as seeing when is it a good time to use wanderers because of the cast time on it.

[silentwindfr]

is clearly not the same, if you had said me that bard will be in the same position than a healer that toggle on and off cleric stance, i will have say yes. but here is not close of use positional.
one question, why move when is not needed? because you will retain your freedom to move and attack when is needed. it's simply offering you an option to increase your dps. that not the case for the ninja. wanderer minuet is a boost of dps, not the positional of the ninja.

wanderer minuet offer you more option! up to you to use it or not. but a ninja that want to play normally, will be forced to use the positional. or them dps, will drop from what they can do now. when a bard not using wanderer minuet will retain them actual dps.

[RiceisNice]

...

If a bard using wanderer's minuet is optional (I don't have to use it), then I can very much say the same for ninja's new skills in your case. Because bard has at least two skills that requires wanderer's minuet to be used. It's a safe assumption to say that bards would need to manage this to pull respectable dps in content to keep up with other classes who also get new skills.

If I'm not/don't want to use Wanderer's Minuet, I might as well play bard as it; without 3.0 Skills.
If you as a ninja do not want to use the new skills that require positional, then you can play ninja as it isl without 3.0 skills.