RIP Ninja

[Spiritreaver1217]

Casting Raiton again and again isn't fun, either. That'll be the only result of not having to use Fuuton so much. Raiton felt amazing when NIN was new, but when they nerfed it by making poisons apply only to Physical attacks, Raiton became... well, nice, but it's not awesome anymore. So instead of Fuuton-Suiton-Raiton-Fuuton-Suiton-Raiton we'll probably get Fuuton-Suiton-Raiton-Raiton-Suiton-Raiton-Fuuton-Suiton-Raiton-Raiton-Suiton-Raiton-Fuuton and so on. Big deal.

So MNK and DRG each get a new awesome mechanic, while we get to cast Raiton more often.

You don't like the changes(even though they are still a month off and you nor i nor anyone else knows how they actually work...), but at the very least it is more Raiton AND more weapon-skill damage. That can be downplayed as much as ppl want to, but could a very nice boost in damage.

I have nowhere near perfect gear, but my Raitons hit on par with my Aeolian Edge-normal combo'd damage and crit'd damage. More Raitons is a very good thing. And that boost will be in conjunction with Haste from Huton being up close to full time. I'm sorry, if all i have to do in try to remember shift around a mob a bit to get what will be a significant boost to my damage, i'm gonna strap on my dancing shoes and dance.

[Riepah]

You don't like the changes(even though they are still a month off and you nor i nor anyone else knows how they actually work...), but at the very least it is more Raiton AND more weapon-skill damage. That can be downplayed as much as ppl want to, but could a very nice boost in damage.

I have nowhere near perfect gear, but my Raitons hit on par with my Aeolian Edge-normal combo'd damage and crit'd damage. More Raitons is a very good thing. And that boost will be in conjunction with Haste from Huton being up close to full time. I'm sorry, if all i have to do in try to remember shift around a mob a bit to get what will be a significant boost to my damage, i'm gonna strap on my dancing shoes and dance.

Uhm, no it's not more Raiton AND more weapon-skill damage. Not having to refresh Fuuton quite so often only amounts to 0,5 seconds of extra time per minute, as you'll be casting a 2mudra Ninjutsu instead of a 3mudra one. Fuuton was *already* supposed to be up full time. If you didn't keep it up all the time, then you weren't playing your class right.

Also, if your Raiton deals the same damage as your Aeolian Edge, that means you were either not using a poison, or you did not have Dancing Edge up. With poison and Dancing Edge enabled, Aeolian Edge is plenty stronger than Raiton - poison alone already brings it to 384 potency as opposed to Raiton's which stays at 360. If you add the slashing resistance to that, Raiton feels like a joke in comparison.

Yes, more Raiton means more damage. However, Raiton is nothing new or exciting. For the other classes, they showed new and exciting stuff. For us, they just announced more of the same.

[Spiritreaver1217]

1)Uhm, no it's not more Raiton AND more weapon-skill damage. Not having to refresh Fuuton quite so often only amounts to 0,5 seconds of extra time per minute, as you'll be casting a 2mudra Ninjutsu instead of a 3mudra one. Fuuton was *already* supposed to be up full time. If you didn't keep it up all the time, then you weren't playing your class right.

2)Also, if your Raiton deals the same damage as your Aeolian Edge, that means you were either not using a poison, or you did not have Dancing Edge up. With poison and Dancing Edge enabled, Aeolian Edge is plenty stronger than Raiton - poison alone already brings it to 384 potency as opposed to Raiton's which stays at 360. If you add the slashing resistance to that, Raiton feels like a joke in comparison.

3)Yes, more Raiton means more damage. However, Raiton is nothing new or exciting. For the other classes, they showed new and exciting stuff. For us, they just announced more of the same.

@1-I'm not gonna do a second by second breakdown with you, but i know i lose time that i could be doing more dmg by practically going full stop when its time to refresh Huton-because i HATE lagging through a cast then having to burn that Kass to reapply instead of using it for another ninjutsu. When i can set Huton and almost forget it, my efficiency and dmg are going up. Moving right past the veiled jab..

@2-Numbers out of my ass: say a regular AE hits for ~1100 and crits for~1600 on a boss. Raiton is hitting for about 900+ and crit'ing for 1300+. Like i said, out of my ass but not too far off i think, and yes i keep a poison on all the time for goodness' sake. I said on par in my post above, not the same, but on par and i stand by it. And i honestly don't bother with DE when i'm with a WAR in party, which is most of the time since i almost always have one i pt with me.

@3-This is the root issue i think. NIN is one of the best jobs out of the gate IMO. And apparently SE is of the same mindset because they went so far as to say it didn't need much work to handle the 3.0+ content. Sorry if i think that is pretty cool and find refinement changes/additions are something to be excited for. I'm old, i'll take substance and continued functionality over flash for the sake of flash any day of the week.

[Riepah]

@2-Numbers out of my ass: say a regular AE hits for ~1100 and crits for~1600 on a boss. Raiton is hitting for about 900+ and crit'ing for 1300+. Like i said, out of my ass but not too far off i think, and yes i keep a poison on all the time for goodness' sake. I said on par in my post above, not the same, but on par and i stand by it. And i honestly don't bother with DE when i'm with a WAR in party, which is most of the time since i almost always have one i pt with me.

Yeah, you said "on par". Do you know what "on par" means? It means "being essentially equal or equivalent; equally balanced", "just as good as" etc.
It does not mean "only slightly worse than". 900 is not on par with 1100. 1300 is not on par with 1600. You can stand by it all you want, but that doesn't make it correct.

[GrimoireOfAlice]

I have nowhere near perfect gear, but my Raitons hit on par with my Aeolian Edge-normal combo'd damage and crit'd damage. More Raitons is a very good thing. And that boost will be in conjunction with Haste from Huton being up close to full time.

This is a fallacy though, you are assuming more Raiton is good from the position of a pre-heavensward Ninja.

Post heavensward will be balanced under the assumption that you have a third Raiton, it won't simply be free damage.

[Spiritreaver1217]

Yeah, you said "on par". Do you know what "on par" means? It means "being essentially equal or equivalent; equally balanced", "just as good as" etc.
It does not mean "only slightly worse than". 900 is not on par with 1100. 1300 is not on par with 1600. You can stand by it all you want, but that doesn't make it correct.

My bad then i suppose. When i use that phrase i mean 'around the same'. i didn't mean 'exactly the same'. But then i did throw out representative numbers to try and clarify any misunderstanding in the thought i was was trying to convey, i thought the idea wouldn't be that abstract, so meh and again apologies in any event.

This is a fallacy though, you are assuming more Raiton is good from the position of a pre-heavensward Ninja.

Post heavensward will be balanced under the assumption that you have a third Raiton, it won't simply be free damage.

And? Whether the freed up extra CD on mudras is used for more Raiton or any other appropriate to the situation ninjustu is considered 'free' or 'required' by the theorycrafters and that ilk-its a good thing in my book.

I get what you are saying, but it is really irrelevant imo.

[Viridiana]

and it will only give them more shuriken casts since Raiton Cuts too much into the GCD while yes its a dps increase still for them its majorly less so.

At my current gear levels, an extra Raiton every minute (if I could fit it into the GCD, which I can't really) would be something like an extra 15 dps. An extra Fuma Shuriken, on the other hand, would be about 12 dps. I'm not sure why you think this would be "majorly less" dps.

[Pluvia]

blah blah blah early morning non coffee math and testing can see the stupid mistakes in quotes below lol

[silentwindfr]

snips

yeah as the time pass, the difference of damage between raiton and fuma will increase. indeed fuma is less problematic at use... but the loose on long fight can't be ignored.

same with the futur positional, we can ignore it and probably deal a decent dps without following it. but that will be the difference between a good and a bad player. in high level raid, people don't allows this sort of difference, when 10 dps can means not reach the dps cap needed before the enrage.

[Pluvia]

yeah as the time pass, the difference of damage between raiton and fuma will increase. indeed fuma is less problematic at use... but the loose on long fight can't be ignored.

same with the futur positional, we can ignore it and probably deal a decent dps without following it. but that will be the difference between a good and a bad player. in high level raid, people don't allows this sort of difference, when 10 dps can means not reach the dps cap needed before the enrage.

There is a difference between positionals which don't suffer for any major lag problems and then there is ninjutsu which is knows to have lag issues.