RIP Ninja

[juniglee]

Another Live Letter, another lack of addressing mudra lag...

The latency weakness of Mudra is now reduced..

Sorry just saw this, did they actually say they were addressing Mudra lag?

[Houston009]

Another Live Letter, another lack of addressing mudra lag...

Trying to keep ninja down, but we won't let them bar us!

[Allyrion]

Another Live Letter, another lack of addressing mudra lag...



Sorry just saw this, did they actually say they were addressing Mudra lag?

No, sorry. I meant that since we can keep Fuuton up with weaponskills, you don't have to do another 3-Mudra ability other than Suiton.
I find that that's where the lag is really an issue.

They've said that there's technical limitations to fixing that lag.
Not sure it'll happen soon.

[silentwindfr]

i think it was an extremely bad move from SE part to add positional to the ninja.
it was like have a class that was different from the other dps melee. each melee dps was offering something different....

now on top to have the mudra lag, one of the most heavy cycle (the most input of all the game since each ninjutsu add 4 skill to do) and the most cranky (because the two dot are not at the same duration making the whole cycle a mess). we will need to make sure to move in the adequate position for be able to pull a good dps.

indeed the change about Huton is more than welcome, but it don't adress the main trouble of the ninjutsu, instead to have huton ever 60 second, we will have it every 80, 100, 120 secondes, who know, meaning we will mostly do Raiton/suiton, i don't see where it give use more ninjutsu to use?
- hyoton have a crappy damage and an effect that is useless in pve.
- doton have the trouble to be an AoE where the damage is ridiculous and another effect mostly useless in pve.
- Katon is a joke since the change of the damage buff of the ninja and it's an AoE.
- fuma shuriken damage is too low for be in comparaison of Raiton

i fail to see why we was needing more room for the ninjutsu when it was already devasted by the mudra lag and had most of it composed of useless skill.

soo far, the positional recquirement for some weaponskill are normal as lore, but the trouble is with the two cycle (weapon skill+ninjutsu) that don't work together but against each other. when you launch a ninjutsu, you breaking your cycle for fit it inside. you are making the class less dynamic and more cranky, what we was needed was true ninjutsu skill that can be used and have some utility. not some stuff we throw every 20 second. because soo far, we are rogue using ninjutsu every 20 second. nothing more, nothing less. the jobs itself need more work. the ninjutsu and the mudra need a looooooot of improvement and the positional wasn't what we was needing!

some example of change that can make it more interesting to play:
- an hud for show us which sign we did cast. because often the lag mess the combinaison. it's simple to make and will already help a loooooooot!
- some new attack with utility, like use the same principle than suiton but with other element, allowing more interaction between ninjutsu and weaponskill. example: use hyoton on the target that allows us to use different skill. or make some ninjutsu leaving a debuff on the target that will be used by other jobs.
- make the 2 dot have the same freaking duration! only this will solve a tons of trouble about keeping the dot and the cycle more fluid!

i'm sure a lot of people have idea for improve the ninja that wasn't recquiring position. they did take the easy way.... instead to give us a more deep battle system for the ninja.

It sounds like NIN may just be MNK with mudras and maybe slightly lower dps, and DRG will do higher dps than previously without much difficulty added onto playing the class.

i feel they push too much the dragoon on us, like into the video of the job skill, only the dragoon is killing him prey... indeed the dragoon are part of the lore of ishgarde, but the dark knight too! and we barely see them.
even the last change of the jobs is simply saying, play dragoon! it's the best!

[ErzaScarlet77]

ninja is extremely easy to play for the amount of dps they output,
sure drg is easier rotation wise but if you jump at the wrong time thats 100% death.
im glad ninja are getting a little risk for their reward

[Adire]

ninja is extremely easy to play for the amount of dps they output,
sure drg is easier rotation wise but if you jump at the wrong time thats 100% death.
im glad ninja are getting a little risk for their reward

I've talked with monks who have an easier time with positionals and keeping up GL than they do with mudras and keeping up DoTs and Huton actually. Mudras, DoT/debuff/buff management are a different kind of complexity than positionals. Someone may find one easier than the other. And while monks share the pain of keeping up two DoTs with different times, NIN DoTs are pretty crucial to keep up at exactly the right times to maintain steady, decent dps. NIN requires a lot more multitasking than MNK in any case if I'm not mistaken since GL is typically kept up automatically.

NIN has to manage Huton, Trick Attack's CD, offensive CDs, Shadow Fang, Mutilation, Dancing Edge (or Storm's eye if a WAR is present), the 10 second window when vulnerability is up after a Trick Attack, all at the same time.

What's easier to play does not matter so much as diversity though. SE is choosing to add the same "risk" as you put it to NINs that MNK and DRG have, rather than allowing for diversity of playstyle. I would rather have 6 mudras and more DoTs to deal with than have positionals, especially on skills that I have already grown accustomed to not using positionals for. I would still find managing those and remembering mudra combos less frustrating and painful, and easier to me than constantly doing positionals.

And doing that would be wiser of SE in my opinion, because it would maintain the playstyle that NIN has while still increasing complexity. Adding positionals is not the only option they have to make NIN more complex if they feel it needs to be. It's an option that will lower the diversity of jobs and reduce (I'm guessing) many people's enjoyment of the job, mine included.

And as I said before, it makes little sense to give a NIN a reason to be anywhere other than behind the target. Ninjas are stealthy, and the best approach on an enemy while being stealthy is from the rear.

[Houston009]

^This
/10char

[NovaLevossida]

I don't personally see the point in adding positionals to attacks if they can't fix the mudra lag. It's a serious problem when I go to fire off my self-haste buff the moment it highlights, the animation starts up for 1/10th of a second, it gets canceled, the icon re-highlights, and then I can actually cast it properly. Or anything else involved with mudra lag. Take all of that and combine it with positionals? That's going to be less fun than it should be.


I actually find monk to be a lot easier to play just because it's consistent. If greased lightning drops or I mess up a positional, that's on me. Mudra lag isn't on me, and it's inconsistent in how it behaves. I'm sitting here kind of wondering if I want to take my NIN or MNK to 60 first, and it's basically coming down to the drawbacks of NIN (mudra lag and now positionals on top of mudra lag) versus everything I like about the job. Where with monk the only thing I dislike about it is how it sucks for soloing comparatively because of positionals. Which is a problem NIN is going to start incorporating as well.

[Adire]

snip

I'm contemplating leveling monk now for that reason actually. If NIN gets a lot of positionals that require a lot of moving, it will essentially be arguably and considerably harder to play than MNK and with probably less DPS still after Heavensward.

If I have to choose between Mudras and positionals or just positionals, I'm going with just positionals.

[NovaLevossida]

snip

If it weren't for the mudra lag, I'd be okay with it completely. I thought it might be cool in Heavensward to go through some of the dangerous areas with hide, but it sounds like we'll be able to fly over most things anyway. Eh, I'm conflicted. Mudrag lag and positionals just doesn't sit well with me.