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  1. #41
    Player
    Felis's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    12,287
    Character
    Skadi Felis
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 70
    With 3.0 we get already a healer, tank and ranged DPS. The jobs after them should be casters or melee.
    (1)

  2. #42
    Player
    OMEGA_HACK's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,260
    Character
    Altrage A'uli
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 90
    Eh, I could see these jobs:

    Red Mage (Rapier)
    Blue Mage (Scimitar)
    Corsair (Gun + Cutlass combo)
    Rune/Mystic Knight (Magic Sword)

    being better suited DPS sword wielding jobs. Samurai historically (real life) was more akin to a knight, and a protector (see my previous post). We already have an Eastern themed DPS, there should be an Eastern themed tank as well as a healer (not sure what that would be though).

    Quote Originally Posted by Felis View Post
    With 3.0 we get already a healer, tank and ranged DPS. The jobs after them should be casters or melee.
    Eh, I don't think that is in the rule book anywhere. Plus from a survivability standpoint they will need to introduce more attractive tanks or queue times will always remain high for DPS, and saying that "well we haven't released a caster in a bit so lets do that because that one is next on the list" will only worsen the problem with wait times.
    (1)
    Last edited by OMEGA_HACK; 05-07-2015 at 02:41 PM.

  3. #43
    Player
    silentwindfr's Avatar
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    Jul 2012
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    4,116
    Character
    Florence Leduc
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 90
    i will be blunt, what is the goal of a Samurai?
    protect him lord, yep... by killing the enemy. samurai spend them time to polish them technique for only one goal.... kill enemy before be killed. that why i think yoshida did think this will be better to have it into a dps. they are not knight, they are warrior that polish them blade for.... kill and only kill.

    that said, we already have more than enough different tympe of tank with 2 hand. maybe time to add one dps with heavy weapon or maybe dual katana (even if it will be a ronin)
    (1)

  4. #44
    Player
    Shippuu's Avatar
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    Mar 2013
    Posts
    628
    Character
    Shippuu Nammuu
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    There's very little distinction between what Knights did, and what Samurai did. They both were upper-class citizens who served and protected a lord above them. Then if you want to throw in romanticized Bushido/honor and stuff and heavier armor it lines up far more thematically to be a tank. And if not Samurai as tanks, then what? What other heavy armor job is left? Because it's unlikely SE will design a full type of armor just for a single tank role when they can easily roll a wanted job into that position without shaking up the gear status quo or making a bizarre exception. And there's little reason for them to create a new job when there's viable options that are highly requested.

    Besides, we're about to get some very Eastern themed armor in Heavensward, and guess which role's version looks like samurai armor? Tank armor.
    (2)

  5. #45
    Player
    OMEGA_HACK's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,260
    Character
    Altrage A'uli
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by silentwindfr View Post
    i will be blunt, what is the goal of a Samurai?
    protect him lord, yep... by killing the enemy. samurai spend them time to polish them technique for only one goal.... kill enemy before be killed. that why i think yoshida did think this will be better to have it into a dps. they are not knight, they are warrior that polish them blade for.... kill and only kill.

    that said, we already have more than enough different tympe of tank with 2 hand. maybe time to add one dps with heavy weapon or maybe dual katana (even if it will be a ronin)
    Origin of Samurai
    c.1720-1730 Japanese, earlier noted samurafi: to serve, equivalent to sa- prefix + morafi watchfully wait (frequentative of mor- to guard)

    Basically the root origin of the word means person of slight status who watchfully waits and guards.
    Peasants → Grunts → Samurai → Daimyo → Shogun

    Not really saying that Samurai can't be a DPS job, but the fact that people are saying they were killers is a bit inaccurate, they were retainers to the daimio (daimyo)

    To further compound on this, the word samurai also stems from the variant saburai which means "to be in attendance, to serve"

    Don't really sound like a super-soldier killer to me.

    Anime has ruined the perception of what real samurai's did, and that is to defend their masters.
    (1)

  6. #46
    Player
    Shippuu's Avatar
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    Mar 2013
    Posts
    628
    Character
    Shippuu Nammuu
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinLi View Post
    If people want SAM to be a tank so badly then provide a alternative to a Sword focus user DPS Job because right now FF14 has this imaginary rule saying " All sword users must be Tank Jobs".
    They don't have to provide an alternative Sword based DPS option because there's nothing that demands there ever be a sword based DPS. There's already likely going to be Red Mage using rapiers as some kind of dps or dps/hybrid. You're the one with some imaginary rule in your head saying there has to be a sword using dps job added at some point.
    (2)

  7. #47
    Player
    silentwindfr's Avatar
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    Jul 2012
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    Gridania
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    4,116
    Character
    Florence Leduc
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK View Post
    snips
    the difference is mainly in how they did "serve". the difference between samurai and knight are this, knight was indeed focusing on them training, but them goal while killing the enemy was to stay alive, it why shield was used by knight. the samurai on the other hand had never as goal as defend him life, he was training him skill, polishing them for be the perfect "tool" for them lord. they was serving as warrior, them goal was to kill, we can try to turn it in another sense, but that the point of any warrior of the history. them goal was to kill!

    the samurai wasn't defending them life, but them lord, them life was at the service of the lord, that why you rarely see a samurai use a shield. we are not talking of anime or stuff like this. samurai was using a lot of different weapon, even if the katana was them life. however, you will rarely see a samurai use a shield. because him life is not own.... him life is at the service of them lord. no greatest honor that die for them lord...

    Samurai =/= knight, before the japanse did meet the occidental them armor was not made of plate, but from lamellar armor. believe me, you can't oppose more two type of warrior than knight and samurai, even if they had the same role, serve them master... the way they was doing it was soo much different.

    but i digress, the point is what is a samurai? a warrior that use him high skill for kill him enemy. not a warrior that will be there for take hit from the enemy. samurai must'n be a tank... we have tons of other possibility of tank class. samurai must be a dps jobs, based on the technique.

    ps: other point, even if katana and two hand sword are different (depending of the time that not really true) i feel it will be a repetition of the type of weapon. i hope for the next tanking jobs a jobs using mace or blunt weapon. even a spear+shield will be better actually.
    (1)

  8. #48
    Player
    EdwinLi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,887
    Character
    Edwin Li
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shippuu View Post
    ---
    Like I said Red Mage original design was not towards Swords gameplay. It was a Job that focused more on using Black and White Magic while the sword was just there for cosmetic look for their Iconic appearance.

    However, if they changed Red Mage to be a Sword user type that uses magic for his melee sword combat that is a different story.

    If they choose to follow Red Mage original design then I can't call it a Sword User because he doesn't use the sword focused attacks and only have the Rapier around for cosmetic look.

    As of now there are two way Red Mage can go being they change Red Mage in FF14 and make it a type of Melee Sword Magic user or keep it original design of using Range Magic while the sword remains as a cosmitic thing.

    I never considered Red Mage a official Sword User Job because they only had their sword around for cosmetic looks. Their main abilites was always focus on their Black and White Magic leaving them as just Range Magic users that can use both Black and White Magic.
    (2)
    Last edited by EdwinLi; 05-07-2015 at 03:26 PM.

  9. #49
    Player
    Shougun's Avatar
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    Jan 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    9,431
    Character
    Wubrant Drakesbane
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 90
    The way people see Samurai (in game) would be solely with a Katana of course, even though generally they would use other weapons over the Katana (that big umbrella term) in war and make it a secondary weapon - Samurai were actually well versed with a bow or spear-like weapon (making the Katana something like a very pretty emergency life saver). The Katana is not a load bearing weapon and so I do not see Samurai's natural spot based on Katana as a tank (the blade is hard and the edge is brittle, not bendy like a western sword), I think weapon wise it makes more sense to be a destroyer of lightly armored targets and large targets when well focused to weak spots.

    Personally I see the Samurai fitting next to the Dragoon in terms of heavy DPS (Dragoon armor has some heavy options, AF is all metal). That and I feel it is a bit copy pasta to go two two handed sword wielders as tanks that both rely on dodging, parrying, and X. Rather they smooth out the pool of options, people mention red mage as DD for a sword weapon and good now you have one one handed sword tank one two handed sword tank and the same respectively for DD (even though Red Mage should have a high magic emphasis).
    (2)
    Last edited by Shougun; 05-07-2015 at 03:50 PM.

  10. #50
    Player
    Zenaku's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    FL,Hialeah
    Posts
    5,526
    Character
    Zenaku Yamada
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Katana190 View Post
    Yup, this pretty much. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he mentioned that Samurai would of been a Tank but instead they thought of Dark Knight which links up to Ishgard a lot better then Samurai, and decided to make Dark Knight a tank. My guess the condition for this is Samurai is going to be a DPS when it gets released in the future. Imo we're gonna have too many Slashing Tanks and that's it, we need more slashing DPS and that's where SAM comes in. Maybe the next tank will use a Hammer or something different from a sharp weapon.

    Edit : On topic, I like the idea's tbh! But I doubt its going to be a tank
    What i read was that yoshi-p was going to release SAM. But dark knight fit more the role of a tank then SAM which mean SAM should then be a DPS.

    SAM have to be a DPS i would really be sad if other cool job become a dam tank. Also it my long dream to be a SAM in a FF MMO
    (1)
    Last edited by Zenaku; 05-07-2015 at 04:21 PM.
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