Revelations from Patch 2.55 [SPOILERS]

[lololink]

Everyone thinks they can go all Dynasty warriors in FF14 !

[Vydos]

This topic went from being awesome to cringy now to be honest.

What became a friendly exchange of ideas and theories became a war between two sides with torches and pitchforks.

Let's at least try to agree on some things here.

- The story in itself isn't bad. But there's clearly room for improvement to how they handled it.
Taking the entire weapon discussion. This is a point that could be avoided by a guard stopping us and asking to leave our weapon behind. (But then again, you'll have people screaming that their character would never do that *rolls eyes*)

- Try to also look things from the perspective of the game developers. As a mmorpg, the creators can only do so much with our character. And I enjoyed what they did in this patch. Yes, we didn't do much. But at the same time we did as much as we could(from a game dev view)

- All other opinions about how we should have acted and any reasons to it. Are completely void. And is something that is only linked to each individuals upbringing. When that scene happened, I felt like it suited my character. Other people prefer the action type/anime-esque type of scenario where you beat the shit out of everyone. It's all personal taste. And something S-E can't accomodate. In worst case scenario, use your IMAGINATION to fill the gaps.

- A final personal opinion that I shared a few times in this topic. I still firmly believe that the entire Nanamo's death was done very sloppy. "I need to know you'll be there for Raubahn in the upcoming hard times that I won't divulge. You will be?! Jolly! Now let me randomly take this PERFECT moment to grab my glass, twirl it around and take a sip of it" *boom death*... I don't know why, but that scene is the only reason why I have a hard time believing that Nanamo didn't know there was poison in it...I might be reading too deeply into things.

[Mimiru_S]

I don't know why, but that scene is the only reason why I have a hard time believing that Nanamo didn't know there was poison in it...I might be reading too deeply into things.

I agree.. Always thought it was odd that she wanted us (Warrior of Light) to be there, so she could tell us something that she was going to repeat in five minutes, to everyone in the banquet hall. Even if it was an innocent exchange, you'd figure she'd want Minfillia there instead, or at least with us, since she's the head of the Scions. Dont really want to believe that Nanamo was setting us up, too, but things just look that way. Praying and asking forgiveness for something she's about to do.. Wanting us to be there, in private.. Glancing at her goblet a few times, like she knew what was about to happen.

I'm sure i'm reading too much into it, but what better way to unite your entire city, than against a "Fallen Hero" assassinating you?

[Chewy2nd]

Found another NPC whose dialouge has changed, Francel in Coerthas (at Skyfire Locks)

[Belhi]

I think one of the issues is we as players had a pretty keen idea on what was going to happen in advance. I think if there was an issue it was they gave us too many hints prior to the patch on what was going to go down. Even the cup on the patch trailer was practically a spoiler.

We were expecting Nanamo to die which naturally made it hard to write that scene without it looking obvious. We are seeing it from our context as players rather than the context of the characters in game. If anything I think they really need to tell us less in advance. Having said all that I still have found from many reactions that many people didn't expect things to go quite the way they ended up going. Nanamo dying sure, but everything else blowing up as much as it did was a surprise to many.

[axemtitanium]

Backseat storytelling has always bothered me a lot. I tend to see it happen a lot in e-peen stroking RP communities who insist that their Mary Sue/Gary Stu character is Super Saiyan 4 and would have just killed all their opponents with a single glare. It's frankly embarrassing. It also reminds me of the rampant weeaboo QQing from back when Midgardsormr was first introduced and people were screaming about how the Japanese language version was "corrupted" into the inferior English version (when in fact, it was the other way around). While the storytelling is not without its flaws, I don't think using your Dreadwyrm Oars of Stroking +1 to murder everyone would have been a better solution to the 2.55 scenario. If you want to write fanfiction about your own power fantasy version of the ending, you're welcome to it, but leave it on FF.net or the General Discussion forums. This is the lore forum; a forum for real in-game lore, not your fanwank.

[Cilia]

None of them were disproved. You just say "NO! It isn't!" That's no proof. People like you are just killing off the whole debate. Especially in threads like the other one, started to discuss the plot holes. Then people come in: "There are no plot holes!"

You want to debate? OK, let's go over the main points people keep arguing.

1. My character could have taken on the Brass Blades that arrested me!
-Maybe, but it wouldn't have helped prove your innocence. You'd simply be leaving more corpses in your wake, and giving the Monetarists more reason to apprehend you was the last thing you needed. Their numbers were too great to take them all on anyway; the entire city's law enforcement was out for you, not just the four Brass Blades that came in with Teledji. And, again, that's assuming you would be holding yourself together well enough to actually do anything, much less fight.

2. I still had my weapon, or wouldn't have given it up!
-From the moment you trigger "The Parting Glass" until you've disembarked at Black Brush Station, you're unarmed. I didn't consider the lack of a weapon all that jarring; no matter how benevolent, would you allow a highly dangerous and armed individual to privately speak with a head of state? That's like sending a French general to go meet with the President alone while the former is toting an M-16, or something to that effect. That wouldn't happen in a hundred years.

3. There weren't enough Brass Blades or Crystal Braves to stop me!
-The entire city's law enforcement was out to get you. The entire city. While yes, we've downed an upwards of seven primals at this point and countless other foes besides, that doesn't make you an invincible combatant. Not by a long shot. With a city full of both Brass Blades and Crystal Braves out for you, their sheer numbers would be enough to bring you down. They wouldn't need to ring an alarm bell because the standing forces of both armies in Ul'dah had been told to hunt us down if we escaped. And, again, you were unarmed during the escape. Where's the plot hole?

4. I wouldn't have fallen for such a cheap trick!
-Well... neither would I. I wouldn't have even taken that vial in the first place; what use do I have for it? I could make one of my own in-game with a little mudstone. I could leave it with Momodi and pick it up later, since she's the one who sent me on that errand. I could leave it with Severian and have him analyze the residue inside. I connected the dots fast enough in reality to tell Nanamo her wine was poisoned. There are any number of things I could have done - from fighting a dozen Primals to wasting time shooting hoops in the Gold Saucer - but from the storyline's perspective our PC was rushed and didn't think it was important, so we took the vial with us. End. Of. Story.

5. I could have stayed for a trial and proved my innocence!
-Ah, no. With Nanamo dead and Raubahn imprisoned (under lawful charges of murder, however sympathetic he might have been), the law can now be bought and sold in Ul'dah. The only people that could testify to your innocence (Laurentius and Ilberd) are known traitors as well, and it's highly unlikely you'd get honest testimony out of them. Assuming there's a jury the Monetarists / Lolorito could probably bribe enough of them to get an outcome favorable to them. They also probably have the judges / magistrates / whatever in their pocket. So good luck with that one.

Honestly, the only bit of writing I have a problem with is where Laurentius insists you take the vial. I immediately get suspicious when people insist I do things. Aside from that though I didn't feel like any of the writing was particularly flawed, and instead of being outraged at how my PC was made... you know... Hyuran (or Roegadyn, or Lalafellian, or Miqo'te, or Elezen) came out feeling more like this in the end.

[Rannie]

Yeah cilia you don't have your weapon for at least part of the cut scenes at least not when you go in to see nanamo nor when you are thrown to the ground by ilberd. I double checked last night and made sure my in game weapon view was turned on.

Edit: You don't have your weapon until you Cid lands you in Coerthas and you get off the enterprise.

[gamesmart]

And the whole story of "we don't have our weapon" is just assumption anyway.

Blatantly false. Pay attention to every cutscene that takes place in Ul'dah - YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR WEAPON.

If they rang the alarm bell, everyone in the city would know this.

Linkpearls exist. You know, that thing that Minfilia keeps bugging you with. They could sound the "alarm" and the smallfolk would be none the wiser. The Brass Blade rush would just look like some sort of incident happened in some other part of Ul'dah and they're moving to stop it.

the whole army can't just teleport in

Why would they need to when they're already outside the doors, everywhere in the city, ready to move at a moment's notice?

The Sultansworn are the Sultanas' guard.

Did you even read the PLD story dialogue? It's confirmed that a portion of the Sultansworn is paid off by Monetarist coin.

[Anonymoose]

What became a friendly exchange of ideas and theories became a war between two sides with torches and pitchforks.

I agree that it's slowly but steadily been heading down that road. Since this subforum was established, it's been of a considerably higher standard in terms of class. We've disagreed, we've debated, and in the heat of a passionate discussion, we've been snarky and dismissive, but we should continue to draw the line at flat out disrespect, no? Tearing down positions and arguments is part of the analytical process. Tearing down people is ugly.

Keep that shite in General.

"I need to know you'll be there for Raubahn in the upcoming hard times that I won't divulge. You will be?! Jolly! Now let me randomly take this PERFECT moment to grab my glass, twirl it around and take a sip of it" *boom death*... I don't know why, but that scene is the only reason why I have a hard time believing that Nanamo didn't know there was poison in it...

Always thought it was odd that she wanted us (Warrior of Light) to be there, so she could tell us something that she was going to repeat in five minutes, to everyone in the banquet hall. <...> Dont really want to believe that Nanamo was setting us up, too, but things just look that way. Praying and asking forgiveness for something she's about to do.. <...> what better way to unite your entire city, than against a "Fallen Hero" assassinating you?

If Nanamo didn't know this was coming (always going to bold the IF since there's hints this is headed in several directions at once), a chunk of this is still easy enough to explain if you remember that Nanamo is a sheltered twenty year old stifled by isolation and manipulation aside from Raubahn. She's essentially an idealistic teenager.

Praying to the Sultantree
I don't think she necessarily needs to be about to screw over everyone she knows to beg forgiveness from the hallowed spirit of the Ul line, she just needs to feel guilt and powerlessness. The first time we meet her, as Lady Lilira, she slips her guard and runs unprotected into Thanalan (ignoring various factions out to get her) just so she can apologize to the tree for someone stealing her crown from the Sultansworn. I think she just does it whenever she feels that she's failed to live up to her own idealistic expectations of herself and how she should empower her people. If the Line of Ul derives its glory from centuries of successful monarchy rule, she probably feels crushing guilt that the only way to reconcile her responsibility to the people as the current Ul monarch is to sever the line entirely. Wouldn't you want forgiveness from your ancestors if you extinguished their legacy to uphold what you believed to be their values? At twenty?

Requesting the Warrior of Light
I know there's plenty of ways to read the scene, but my first impression was that she just didn't have the strength to go through with it. She's relied on Raubahn for nearly all of her strength, and now she's about to circumvent him. He'd have tried to talk her out of this - he'd have said not to put it on herself, not to throw the city into chaos, not to snuff out the Line of Ul, to let him keep eroding away at the Monetarists. By dissolving the Monarchy, she was essentially saying that Raubahn wasn't good enough - that he'd failed in his promise to her. I felt like she was looking at hurting Raubahn, ending her family name, and throwing the city into chaos, and at the same time she knew she had to, she didn't want to and didn't think she could. So, she put it out there to Kan-E and Merlwyb - two city-states of support and pressure on herself to not back out. Then, she told the Hero of Eorzea. I felt like she was deriving strength from the player; what could she have to fear for Ul'dah's future if the Warrior of Light had her back? Everything would be okay and her sacrifice wouldn't be in vain - someone who makes the impossible possible promised. She even says that she was filled with dread up until that moment, and moves to chug some liquid courage as if her next action was to slam the goblet down and head down to the feast to burn some bridges.

The Scene is Suspicious, but...
I agree that, by then, many of us had figured out that SE was at least going to go through with the death scene (regardless of whether they intended to reverse it later). I agree that it looks wonky from that perspective, as well. It's possible that she could have known what was going to happen and planned this to some degree, but it's just as possible that she knew she was about to be taken out and was so filled with hoplessness that she just let it happen, entrusting the future to Raubahn and the Warrior of Light. For all we know, she let herself be taken out because that was her way of dissolving the monarchy. The main reason I'm tempted to discard a lot of that is just that she flat out told the Warrior of Light her plans for five minutes from then. "Raubahn will need help without me," looks a lot less like "I'm planning something... Goodbye," when followed up with, "Let's go downstairs and let this cat out of the bag."

What looks to one person like a clumsy scene looks to another like she has ulterior motives, and to another like SE is laying it on thick because you already know it's coming. It all depends on how much you factor into the equation the fact that you, as a limited-omniscient viewer on the other side of a computer monitor, have seen enough to know what's coming.