Revelations from Patch 2.55 [SPOILERS]

[Fenral]

Here's something for you to mull over, Moose: what if the Scions are dead, or near enough to it, but Minfillia is going to save them anyway? We still need some form of solid answer as what it means to be an Archon. What it really means.

The Scions can't be gone from the story, because unlike Moenbryda, they still have a role to play. Seeing a gap in Yda's mask only solidified that there's still so much we don't know about them, and now that we've gotten rid of the endless political duties that have constantly kept us from getting to know them better, we're finally going to get a chance to deal with them as people, and given our current cosmic nerf, as equals.

I think. I hope. I think I hope?

[Anonymoose]

Here's something for you to mull over, Moose: what if the Scions are dead, or near enough to it, but Minfillia is going to save them anyway? We still need some form of solid answer as what it means to be an Archon.

I agree with that, fully. SE made their courage and willingness to be sacrificed emotional, but they didn't exploit their deaths for impact. I remain hopeful that Hydaelyn was telling Minfilia that she can save (or resurrect) them (perhaps at a cost). Some or all of them could truly end up being dead, and the sadness of that loss will be felt later. Conversely, we could go without them for a while, concerned for their safety, only to have them return to help us at a crucial moment, later, instead utilizing the emotion of a jeopardized reunion.

As for the meaning of Archon, I'm pretty sure that it's mostly a fancy term for people who cherish and preserve history, end up being of great value during an "apocalypse" (Calamity), and are remembered as Angels - divine messengers bringing "input from the gods" to save us on their behalf (but I could be quite wrong about that).

If I had to guess, I'd say that educated history-keepers are often at the forefront of saving people from an Umbral Era, and that the ones from other eras end up remembered as divine beings - angels - messengers of the gods' will - because myth gets bigger and bigger as time goes on. So a new umbral era comes, the history-keepers show back up, and everyone's like "THE ANGELS HAVE RETURNED!" while the old Archon's great great great great great great great great grandkids are just like, "Sure, we'll go with that for now, please just start planning a defense."

EDIT
If you want to get metaphysical/supernatural with predictions, remember that Minfilia is the only one of the with the Echo, an ability that allows the soul to transcend its boundaries (and the flesh, apparently) and interact with the souls of others. Perhaps that could be of some use to the recently dead and/or dying.

[myahele]

Gods help Square Enix if they reveal that this punch in the emotional crotch was a Disney Death all along.

Lol I am reminded that there's a new character on the scene: Pipin. And apperantly there's a theory that he's also a secret royal member.

I hope that it wont be him that will kiss cure Nanamo from her perpetual slumber

[Viridiana]

If you want to get metaphysical/supernatural with predictions, remember that Minfilia is the only one of the with the Echo, an ability that allows the soul to transcend its boundaries (and the flesh, apparently) and interact with the souls of others. Perhaps that could be of some use to the recently dead and/or dying.

Hmm. . .that's an interesting point. Combined with the possibility that she's been getting stronger in the Echo (e.g. she understood Nabriales), perhaps she's about to pull off something impressive. I do think that if they go this route, SE will have it be something like Hydaelyn guiding her in the Echo's use to save them.

On another note, I'm thinking about Elidibus. As we said in another thread, Elidibus seems to be on team Elidibus, as it were. He certainly seems feal to Zodiark, but not necessarily to the other Ascians. If he's discussing the fate of the planet with Urianger, I have to assume that he's doing so to bring about Zodiark's awakening; yet I don't believe that Urianger would act to the detriment of Hydaelyn. Add in the fact that Elidibus believes that when we master the Echo we will see things their way, and I wonder if he isn't taking a roundabout way of strengthening our ability with the Echo. Similarly, if what Elidibus says is true, I have to wonder if it could become a character development point for Minfilia (or even the WoL).

[Anonymoose]

Lol I am reminded that there's a new character on the scene: Pipin. And apperantly there's a theory that he's also a secret royal member.

Game of Thrones Spoilers for Season 4 and an all-but-confirmed character ending theory

Confidential excerpt from a Dev. Team meeting PowerPoint presentation:
2.5 will to close with Nanamo pulling a Reverse-Joffrey, but unbeknownst to the Monetarists, Pipin is actually in a Jon Snow situation.

* * * EDIT * * *

He certainly seems feal to Zodiark, but not necessarily to the other Ascians. <...>I wonder if he isn't taking a roundabout way of strengthening our ability with the Echo.

I think a few things are (almost) beyond doubt by this point.
[1] Elidibus thinks he's doing what's best for this planet.
[2] Lahabrea is going way, way off-script.

The second coming of Zodiark requires massive chaos, and at first Lahabrea is like, "Well, the primals can surely accomplish that!" But ever since then he's been nurturing the ever loving hells out of this pet project of putting the power of the Divine in the hands of man. Not only that, but his rampage at the end of Praetorium sounded just like Elidibus' exposition. I don't think either of them are on-the-level with the overlords from the other world(s).

Elidibus, despite claiming that he feels he is not our enemy and that his goals are in contrast to those of the "dark princes," is still adamant that Zodiark's will is above all else. What are he and Lahabrea playing at that goes against the others, yet requires reminding Lahabrea that his side-project can't become priority over The Mission, and still considers Zodiark the Truth? This part is still [Requires More Information], because we don't quite know how "this whole world, it's lands, it's people, everything" will change "to the way they once were and always should have been."

Immediately after 2.55, I had a whimsical thought - what if the whole point is to call Zodiark so his power can overcome whatever has bound this planet to the Cycle of the Eras, but then immediately turn on him and the other Ascians and use a man-made God to strike him down, as well? Would that not free our world (the world in which both Elidibus and Lahabrea originated) from binary light and darkness and stop the cycle? Of course, the theory is very fragile and probably quite wrong (especially just because Elidibus seems so fanatically devoted). It also doesn't even begin to address the "everything will change" aspect. I'll keep it in the back of my mind and adjust it to something worth our time if I find support for it.

I don't think Urianger has turned on us, either. I think he was just as surprised as we were to be invited to entreat with Elidibus. I think the time has just finally come to reach out to "our side" for some role in their endgame. Still, it's nice to see SE capitalizing on his awkwardness to make us doubt his loyalties and origins, again. Now the people who didn't play 1.0 know how that feels, lol.

[Fenral]

As for the meaning of Archon, I'm pretty sure that it's mostly a fancy term for people who cherish and preserve history, end up being of great value during an "apocalypse" (Calamity), and are remembered as Angels - divine messengers bringing "input from the gods" to save us on their behalf (but I could be quite wrong about that).

That is about all Ferne has said on the subject, and it seems to be the extent of what we know in game as well. By that logic, I'm pretty sure that that one supposedly unrelated character (who, no, I'm never giving up on) with the same brands as our known Archons, became one with his actions at the end of that story, if he wasn't already. Knowing that everyone we've met with those tats is now in limbo gives me a strange sort of hope for the next expansion, if not this upcoming one.

If you want to get metaphysical/supernatural with predictions, remember that Minfilia is the only one of the with the Echo, an ability that allows the soul to transcend its boundaries (and the flesh, apparently) and interact with the souls of others. Perhaps that could be of some use to the recently dead and/or dying.

It's always irked me, only very slightly, that the localized term "Echo" doesn't nearly convey all of the meanings embodied in the Japanese 超える力. Koeru chikara, literally "the power to overcome." The Japanese term is almost a pun with how readily it's used to overcome death, time, memory, language barriers, repeated wipes on hard boss fights...

I suspect Ferne will pull some transcendent localization card by saying their meanings are meant to be considered together, not individually. I'd actually be disappointed if he didn't.

So even though she plays the damsel-in-distress card a little too easily for a character played by Miyuki Sawashiro, Minfillia should be just as capable of overcoming hardships as our PC. Really hoping the expansion is going to be her time to shine.

[axemtitanium]

I think some people in this thread are forgetting that the general public is being fed the story that "the Sultana is very ill" by the Monetarists. Only very few in positions of power (i.e. GC leaders and upper level lieutenants) even know about the accusations of murder alleged against the Warrior of Light. In talking to the GC overseers, they all assure you that they believe these allegations to be completely false. As for the smallfolk, they've only heard rumors about the WoL betraying something or other, but they generally don't have any details and seem to mostly be skeptical of the Monetarists' propaganda and still on "our side", so to speak.

So why did the Monetarists/Lolorito decide to hide the assassination and instead say the Sultana is merely ill? If his goal was to slander and subsequently imprison the Warrior of Light, he's failing magnificently. He should have just gone with the story he presented at the banquet---that the WoL poisoned the Sultana and should be captured/killed on sight. That would have motivated the Ul'dahn citizenry much more than the cover story he's presenting. There must be a reason.

Let's suppose that Lolorito and the Monetarists' plans are completely unrelated to Ascian plotting for now. I don't believe this has been hinted at yet at all, as far as I know. Even Teledji's bid to capture Omega hasn't been connected to the Ascians to my knowledge. It was just something he felt like doing to consolidate his power. This (relatively) safe assumption markedly simplifies their motivations: the Monetarists and Lolorito are solely after money and power in Ul'dah. It appears that if Nanamo succeeded at dissolving the monarchy, that would dilute or possibly completely nullify the Monetarists' power in Ul'dah for some reason. I don't think we know enough specifics about how government works in Ul'dah to understand why this is the case but Nanamo believed it so we'll just go with that.

So we've established that the Monetarists NEED the monarchy to exist in order to stay in power. If they've actually killed the reigning monarch (who doesn't have an eligible heir as far as we know), they've really put themselves in a bit of a pickle. They've created a succession crisis, much like the one that just happened in Garlemald, and without an alternative candidate to prop up as their puppet, it sounds like killing Nanamo creates more problems for themselves than it solves. This explains why they publicly announced it as an "illness"; they don't want to create a succession panic.

So here's my theorytime. Nanamo is alive (sorry Moose, gonna disagree with you on this one). She has been poisoned, perhaps with Somnus, and is in a coma/coma-like state. During this time, they've got free reign over Ul'dah by default since the monarch is currently unfit to rule. When Limsa/Grid/WoL/the Scions are finally ready to publicly accuse the Monetarists of murder (which never happened, as far as the public knows), they're ready to say "WTF are you talking about? She's right here, alive and fine trolololol". They'll wheel her out, perhaps still unconscious or maybe they've succeeded at their real plan which was to get access to the Sultana to brainwash her and put her more directly under their control. The assassination show that happened at the banquet had only two goals: 1) to undermine the credibility of the WoL in the eyes of the GCs (which failed), and 2) to oust Raubahn from the Syndicate and as leader of the Immortal Flames (succeeded with flying colors). Teledji's death was not necessarily according to plan but I suppose Lolorito can't complain about losing a rival on the Syndicate.

tl;dr: the reason the Monetarists are being hush-hush about the Sultana's assassination is because she wasn't assassinated. It doesn't make sense to cover it up for any other reason.

[Anonymoose]

tl;dr: the reason the Monetarists are being hush-hush about the Sultana's assassination is because she wasn't assassinated. It doesn't make sense to cover it up for any other reason.

IF this isn't the Juliet Strategem, another angle might be that if the entire world thought you murdered the Sultana, it would be asinine for you to come and go to as you please from any nation in the Alliance between now and Heavensward like you had an outstanding parking ticket you hadn't gotten around to. It creates the excuse for this sort of "the higher-ups are trying to reel you in, but I won't arrest you because <insert some excuse>, so don't cause a scene." limbo.

[Fenral]

So we've established that the Monetarists NEED the monarchy to exist in order to stay in power. If they've actually killed the reigning monarch (who doesn't have an eligible heir as far as we know), they've really put themselves in a bit of a pickle.

tl;dr: the reason the Monetarists are being hush-hush about the Sultana's assassination is because she wasn't assassinated. It doesn't make sense to cover it up for any other reason.

Really? I think you answered your own question there.

[axemtitanium]

I don't think this is a Juliet situation. Forgive me if I say I don't think Nanamo is clever enough to fake her own death. She's too naive and earnest, methinks. And while I understand Gameplay and Story Segregation for why the players can still waltz around Ul'dah, I think it's a bit neater that the Monetarists DIDN'T smear your name through the mud to the public as the justification for why we're able to move around Ul'dah/Eorzea with impunity.

@Fenral: I'm not sure I understand. I didn't ask any questions in the part of my post you quoted?