Dedicated Thread for Patch 2.55 Story Discussion/Spoilers

[Gilthas]

stuff

I know you're not threatening to not play 3.0, but aren't the people saying that they should "stay dead" doing the same thing?

I think it's extremely likely that all the Scions are alive since we didn't actually see them die. So no, them "coming back" wouldn't make FFXIV a comic book.

Nanamo is a different issue since we actually see her die and her death scene was certainly a lot more emotional than the "death scenes" of the Scions. But it's certainly not outside of the realm of possibility that Nanamo was poisoned with a drug that only made her seem dead. If true though, I don't think she was in on the plan.

Reading through the responses I'd say no, but literally nobody who said plothole in this thread ellaborated on what were the holes. Can you be the first to do so? Please?

I imagine we both know that people make up plotholes to justify why they consider a story bad. Some people have never heard of suspension of disbelief.

I still remember someone telling me that FFVII was riddled with plotholes including the player never knowing who Cloud's dad is.

[Wildsprite]

Reading through the responses I'd say no, but literally nobody who said plothole in this thread ellaborated on what were the holes. Can you be the first to do so? Please?

actually it is elaborated on a few times but I'll point out in my first post on here that wasnt just about Yugiri's hair

okay first off. we don't know that Nanamo is dead. her body was not examined while we were present and, it is not confirmed by anyone we can trust(this should send up big red flags right there). we can assume she might be but the way they left it, it is very possible they wanted you and all present at the banquet to believe she is. we know that Wilfred and Teledji are dead. it is assumed that the Ilberd is likely dead(though I really hope he isn't cause I wanna murder him). and the impression I got was that Lolorito orchistrating the majority of it, although I think he might have just taken advantage of the situaton with Teledji dead.

it is never confirmed that any of the scions are dead either only assumed.

and my second post

~snip~

Nanamo is a different issue since we actually see her die and her death scene was certainly a lot more emotional than the "death scenes" of the Scions. But it's certainly not outside of the realm of possibility that Nanamo was poisoned with a drug that only made her seem dead. If true though, I don't think she was in on the plan.

we don't see her die, what we see is about the same thing as going into spasms and passing out. nobody touches her with you present and I still suspect that is because it would be much harder to fake it if they felt a pulse or her breathing. the only word you have of her death comes from people you can't trust.

[Aeyis]

I finished about 4 hoursafter the servers came up, but just found this thread...

They got us.... They have pulled out every emotional trick in the book. They even made some of us hate the writers for the storyline!

WOW! Is all I can say. Think about it. We ARE after that point, the dejected Warrior of Light trudging through the snow and thinking about how much we have lost - just like in the trailer. The whole thing was orchestrated to put us in a MOOD - not to give us choices or more things that were playable. I think they succeeded.

For those complaining about the fact that they couldn't participate, and only watch events unfold around them... That's the whole point. Sometimes things happen you can't influence or change. Not participating only amplified the feelings of anger and frustration, depression and loss.

Sure, there is always a possibility that things will not be what they seem, but for now, they've created the perfect mood for the expansion.

Thing is it feels cheap precisely because your character was in a position where you could change what happend, many many times. Yet all your character does is basically ignore the 10 million signs. Hence why its cheap story writing.

Why does your character just believe suspected traitors? Does what your treasured friends say to you mean nothing?
Do your personally recruited people mean nothing to you?

To be honest, I think the position of our character in this scenario is kind of brilliant when you think about it.

Until that point, you were a living legend that made a sport of slaying gods. You had no rival and you felt there was nothing you couldn't do. In short, you've become overconfident in your abilities. Now, for the first time since your journey began, you were powerless. All your trials relied on your skills and courage, which you excelled at. This time your enemy was playing smart and made you vulnerable (You were seen without your weapon, and all your abilities are attached to it). You are a warrior, not a player in the game of politics. The biggest threat to you are schemers, for they do not play with the confrontational rules you're used to. Sure, I thought "Fight me, godsdamnit! Fight me!" the entire time, but I bet that is what the player character was feeling as well. From that point of view, being in a helpless position is something I welcome.

So the moral of all this is that without the blessing of the light we are powerless against bad writing and being locked into place via plotholing. Tyvm, but I already knew that.

[Balipu]

I know you're not threatening to not play 3.0, but aren't the people saying that they should "stay dead" doing the same thing?
Nah. I won't quit if they all turn out alive but will stay disappointed. And seeing how much they added to the story I think we could do well with only Tataru, Yugiri, Cid and the Leveilleurs so even though I love Y'shtola, I don't think the game would go to hell without her.
I think it's extremely likely that all the Scions are alive since we didn't actually see them die. So no, them "coming back" wouldn't make FFXIV a comic book.
No we didn't see them die, that's true, but they didn't stay behind to catch up with us later, either. We last saw Papalymo and Yda winning but the army got passed them AND the portcullis. Y'shtola very explicitly preapaired to drop the ceiling on her own head. Like I said, Nanamo and at least one Scion should stay dead.
Nanamo is a different issue since we actually see her die and her death scene was certainly a lot more emotional than the "death scenes" of the Scions. But it's certainly not outside of the realm of possibility that Nanamo was poisoned with a drug that only made her seem dead. If true though, I don't think she was in on the plan.
Or what if she was in on the plan to drink the poison and die? As others have pointed out, her expression and her gestures during the private audience were highly suspicious. Also she is likely not so dense as to believe that dissolving the monarchy would prevent the monetarists from making a power play. She likely planned for Teledji becomming overconfident and showing his hands too soon, which he did. This might also redeem Kan-E and Merlwyb. Remember, we didn't see the end of the tea party where she revealed her intention to abdicate the throne. Merlwyb almost stayed but remembered that this was all according to Nanamo's plan and left. Yes, this is my theory and i'm gonna stick to it.


I imagine we both know that people make up plotholes to justify why they consider a story bad. Some people have never heard of suspension of disbelief.

I still remember someone telling me that FFVII was riddled with plotholes including the player never knowing who Cloud's dad is.

Yeah, plot hole is this magic word people throw around. Like how everyone is a n00b who I can beat and everyone who I can't has no life. Or at least not a girlfriend.

actually it is elaborated on a few times but I'll point out in my first post on here that wasnt just about Yugiri's hair

and my second post



we don't see her die, what we see is about the same thing as going into spasms and passing out. nobody touches her with you present and I still suspect that is because it would be much harder to fake it if they felt a pulse or her breathing. the only word you have of her death comes from people you can't trust.

Yes well this isn't what a plot hole is. A plot hole would be for Teledji for showing up in Ishgard after the banquett.
There not being an autopsy is not a plot hole at all.

[Aeyis]

Reading through the responses I'd say no, but literally nobody who said plothole in this thread ellaborated on what were the holes. Can you be the first to do so? Please?

The plotholes are pretty obvious. Also quite a few have been mentioned already, have you read all the replies in here?

snip

You are one of the few people in here that doesnt actually bother to use spoiler tags to cover important facts. I think that says enough about your opinion on plotholes.
But since im weak to a fault when it comes to trolling, ill bite.

I think it's extremely likely that all the Scions are alive since we didn't actually see them die. So no, them "coming back" wouldn't make FFXIV a comic book.

Dont particular care for them dying myself. The plotholes here is that all of them died when they really shouldnt have.
Portculis could have been dropped from the other side. Overdrives could have been used in a none self-destructive way.
Who ever heard of someone in the history of gaming using a holy when they werent immune to its effects themselves?
= scion plotholes.
Ah yes and one more: Hydaelyn suddenly talking to Minfilia. Hydaelyn tends to warn people beforehand, not afterwards.

Nanamo is a different issue since we actually see her die and her death scene was certainly a lot more emotional than the "death scenes" of the Scions. But it's certainly not outside of the realm of possibility that Nanamo was poisoned with a drug that only made her seem dead. If true though, I don't think she was in on the plan.

The plotholes here are: you track down one of your favored Crystal Braves, yet easily believe the words of a suspected Brave who just happened to be there. You just happen to get a personal invite from the Sultana. Odd, considering she should have expected you to be at the feast. Actually, she should have been there herself.
Also your character just sits there passively as she 'dies'.

When the brass blades etc come, it makes no sense to just come with them. Weve had betrayals, we fought the empire and what not. We can see where this is going, and with his timing he was likely responsible for all of it.
What, you say we had no weapon? Plothole. Why on earth would I not have my weapon with me. All the other leaders had their weapons at the feast.
Besides, you might recall Yshtola using holy without using her wand. Im sure that as an actual white mage instead of a conjurer (which is Yshtolas class, when did she learn holy exactly?I guess they made her a white mage suddenly, ah another plothole) I could have done the same.

I imagine we both know that people make up plotholes to justify why they consider a story bad. Some people have never heard of suspension of disbelief.

No theres actually a lot of plotholes here. Suspension of disbelief doesnt work if its too hard to believe based on what the story gives you to work with.

I still remember someone telling me that FFVII was riddled with plotholes including the player never knowing who Cloud's dad is.

Kind of a hyperbole example.

[saber_alter]

i found this conversation interesting.

I know you're not threatening to not play 3.0, but aren't the people saying that they should "stay dead" doing the same thing?
Nah. I won't quit if they all turn out alive but will stay disappointed. And seeing how much they added to the story I think we could do well with only Tataru, Yugiri, Cid and the Leveilleurs so even though I love Y'shtola, I don't think the game would go to hell without her.
I'm still not sure if any of them died, though Y'shtola and Thancred are probably closer to the death flag. Yda and papalymo are probably alive and kicking, being caught in your own Final heaven isn't really life threatening...or is that why we do a backflip away after we do it?
I think it's extremely likely that all the Scions are alive since we didn't actually see them die. So no, them "coming back" wouldn't make FFXIV a comic book.
No we didn't see them die, that's true, but they didn't stay behind to catch up with us later, either. We last saw Papalymo and Yda winning but the army got passed them AND the portcullis. Y'shtola very explicitly preapaired to drop the ceiling on her own head. Like I said, Nanamo and at least one Scion should stay dead.
i agree that the Sultana is dead. less so that any of the scions are, people dying to flash of white light is pretty common for cheating death.
Nanamo is a different issue since we actually see her die and her death scene was certainly a lot more emotional than the "death scenes" of the Scions. But it's certainly not outside of the realm of possibility that Nanamo was poisoned with a drug that only made her seem dead. If true though, I don't think she was in on the plan.
Or what if she was in on the plan to drink the poison and die? As others have pointed out, her expression and her gestures during the private audience were highly suspicious. Also she is likely not so dense as to believe that dissolving the monarchy would prevent the monetarists from making a power play. She likely planned for Teledji becomming overconfident and showing his hands too soon, which he did. This might also redeem Kan-E and Merlwyb. Remember, we didn't see the end of the tea party where she revealed her intention to abdicate the throne. Merlwyb almost stayed but remembered that this was all according to Nanamo's plan and left. Yes, this is my theory and i'm gonna stick to it.
I was going to argue about why wasn't Raubahn in on it, and why Nanamo is suddenly so scheming, though i do get that a monetarist power grab is the perfect setup for a revolution done by the people.
I imagine we both know that people make up plotholes to justify why they consider a story bad. Some people have never heard of suspension of disbelief.

I still remember someone telling me that FFVII was riddled with plotholes including the player never knowing who Cloud's dad is.

You are one of the few people in here that doesnt actually bother to use spoiler tags to cover important facts. I think that says enough about your opinion on plotholes.

the topic has the word spoilers in it, if your going to be going into this topic, you have to expect it.

[Balipu]

The plotholes are pretty obvious. Also quite a few have been mentioned already, have you read all the replies in here?

Yes, but none of them are actually plot holes. Something being suggested but not explicitly shown is not a plot hole. Our character being passive and unresponsive like alll the time in the game (remember Ifrit? We were unrestrained and armed but still didn't just waltz out of the Amalja camp. We only drew weapons when Ifrit showed up) is not a plot hole. You may not like the story but it did follow the same logic from beginning to end.

You are one of the few people in here that doesnt actually bother to use spoiler tags to cover important facts. I think that says enough about your opinion on plotholes.

What? What does that even mean? Why do you think there is a colleration between use of spoiler tags and opinion on plot holes?
You cannot fully grasp what logical connections are. I think that says enough about your opinion on plotholes.

[Aeyis]

i
the topic has the word spoilers in it, if your going to be going into this topic, you have to expect it.

Thats true. But near everyone else was still using them. Out of courtesy for the topic, and others. To have someone suddenly comment on ''lol they are using plotholes do they even know wats a plothole'' shows less courtesy towards the topic, and bespeaks of perhaps less of an interest in this topic.
IE: he didnt actually read to see if what we talk about really are plotholes.

[Aeyis]

What? What does that even mean? Why do you think there is a colleration between use of spoiler tags and opinion on plot holes?
You cannot fully grasp what logical connections are. I think that says enough about your opinion on plotholes.

Your troll opinion is duly noted. Please read the threads replies previous to your ''could someone please tell me what the plotholes are??? you havent yet???''.
It is there you will find your answer.


Also, on the topic of logical connections:

-You ask what the plotholes are. Second part of that post specifies no plotholes have been mentioned.
- However plotholes (valid and invalid plotholes) have been mentioned before.
- Implies that your question is not an honest one.
- Your current post only replies to a gip, and not to the actual arguments in a post.

logical conclusion: you are a troll.
result: ''Your troll opinion is duly noted''


Logic.

[Gilthas]

actually it is elaborated on a few times but I'll point out in my first post on here that wasnt just about Yugiri's hair

Um, none of those are plot holes.