gutted

[MageBlack]

All of which is available in a FC house. Which is off-topic?
Not sure what you are referring to as ''group crafting'' tho.

That stymies the creation of New FC's, Join an existing one or play the Russian roulette of housing. Does nothing if SE is expecting an influx of new players with Heavensward. Our FC is a close knit group of RL friends, we don't have a FC house (but we do have the money for a medium) and dont want to be absorbed by another FC just for the sake of housing. Our own choice i realize but this does not excuse the lack of available houses, first-come-first-serve is a terrible way to do any major content like this. Could you imagine what would happen if Relic Weapons were treated like this? Only the first 1500 people to get their relic weapon get one, the rest have to wait for those people to sell, discard, or trade out their relic weapon.

Group Crafting is the new content coming in Heavensward where FC's build an airship in their basement and then can use it to explore new areas with RNG items and content. Yay for being locked out of that!

You can make lots of gil with that actually. Seen a few people do just that. (there's been a guy with 60+ MDs on my mb)

Its a chance too and not an optimal way to solve this problem. It still does nothing for new players or people who werent there the second the servers went live. I tried but had issues logging in for the first hour at which point i saw on the forums that my server had literally sold out of plots. I gave up and went to bed since it was 4am...

PS: I'm sure more wards will be coming with 3.0 but will it be enough? Is the current system good for personal homes? should the personal home be changed to a different system to free up the wards for FC housing? will the additional wards go to the servers where they are needed or be a blanket addition leaving some servers still full up while others have whole wards that are empty, wasting the resources.

[Aeyis]

That stymies the creation of New FC's, Join an existing one or play the Russian roulette of housing.

All of those features were ment to promote just that tho.

Only the first 1500 people to get their relic weapon get one, the rest have to wait for those people to sell, discard, or trade out their relic weapon.

This argument was made before, but I decided not to respond then. My reply:
Then I would actually bother to obtain a fully upgraded relic weapon, whereas I currently have not progressed beyond the first step.

Group Crafting is the new content coming in Heavensward where FC's build an airship in their basement and then can use it to explore new areas with RNG items and content. Yay for being locked out of that!

I figured as much. However, that is part of ''airships'', and shouldnt be listed as a seperate point.

Its a chance too and not an optimal way to solve this problem.

Not very chancy at all. It's no optimal solution, I agree with that. But the argument is more intended to point out the fallacy in the argument. ''you can only take 1m gil with you when you transfer'' That's a poor argument to use against transfering servers.

PS: I'm sure more wards will be coming with 3.0 but will it be enough? Is the current system good for personal homes? should the personal home be changed to a different system to free up the wards for FC housing? will the additional wards go to the servers where they are needed or be a blanket addition leaving some servers still full up while others have whole wards that are empty, wasting the resources.

I can't answer that. If it follows the same system of ''all servers have the same amount of plots'' then it seems like it will be the same situation as it is now. Not enough plots on the larger servers, empty wards on the smaller servers.

snip

You can but you don't have to. Most solid reasoning I've ever seen. Excellent arguments, great examples.

What is bad as far as i can talk (because i can't know how they manage the memory of their servers) is how every server is given the same number of plots no matter it's population, and how there are not plots or whole areas reserved for FC housing only.

Other than that the system is good.

Indeed.

[MageBlack]

All of those features were ment to promote just that tho.

This argument was made before, but I decided not to respond then. My reply:
Then I would actually bother to obtain a fully upgraded relic weapon, whereas I currently have not progressed beyond the first step.


I figured as much. However, that is part of ''airships'', and shouldnt be listed as a seperate point.



Not very chancy at all. It's no optimal solution, I agree with that. But the argument is more intended to point out the fallacy in the argument. ''you can only take 1m gil with you when you transfer'' That's a poor argument to use against transfering servers.


I can't answer that. If it follows the same system of ''all servers have the same amount of plots'' then it seems like it will be the same situation as it is now. Not enough plots on the larger servers, empty wards on the smaller servers.


You can but you don't have to. Most solid reasoning I've ever seen. Excellent arguments, great examples.


Indeed.

[Aeyis]

So basically, when I had a whole set of different points, one of which even strongely agreeing with you; all you did was make a sarcastic comment+ img.

+1 to you. (for not reading)

[Akuryu]

You can but you don't have to. Most solid reasoning I've ever seen. Excellent arguments, great examples.

I'll give you one, the last MMO I played: Rift.

In Rift you don't so much buy a house as you own a dimension. Think of it like owning land. You can build a house, or multiple houses, bridges, docks, boats, roller coasters, The Death Star etc. Whatever you want to build. There are different themes... a desert oasis, a rocky cliffside, lakefront, islands, forests, etc. They come in various sizes, but even the smallest ones are larger than a large FC house in FFXIV. The larger ones are the size of a whole ward in FFXIV.

Surely these are limited... I mean think of the servers!
Nope. All players can own up to 20 dimensions. If for some reason 20 isn't enough for you, you can make an alt for more, then give your main permissions to build/edit the area.

Well then surely they are reserved for the richest 1%...
Nope. Actually the game gives all characters 2 free ones. From there more can be earned from quests, seasonal events, purchased with in-game currency or from the cash shop. There are no taxes or up-keep costs.

Well they must look just awful.
I guess that's subjective. http://www.dimensiongallery.com/

Good enough arguments for you or should I move on to another game?

[Renik]

snip

Ok now show us their server structure, if these have an impact on gameplay outside of housing, if they are client-side or server-side and how susceptible they are to hacking.

You may not know, but most MMOs have housing as a pure vanity thing which works client-side and does not affect gameplay at all (so they don't care about hacking), while others have a very limited presets with no place for personalization, in any case these system can't be applied to ffxiv w/o turning housing into a cheesy vanity system with nothing more than boring presets.

Even if housing affects us all, this is a topic that requires a minimum level of knowledge... don't take this as an offense, i'm not an expert but you seem to know very little about how this kind of systems are managed.

Personal housing: Instanced.

Wards don't take server memory, this would do nothing, separate wards for personal hosing would work.

[Callinon]

Ok now show us their server structure, if these have an impact on gameplay outside of housing, if they are client-side or server-side and how susceptible they are to hacking.

You may not know, but most MMOs have housing as a pure vanity thing which works client-side and does not affect gameplay at all (so they don't care about hacking), while others have a very limited presets with no place for personalization, in any case these system can't be applied to ffxiv w/o turning housing into a cheesy vanity system with nothing more than boring presets.

Even if housing affects us all, this is a topic that requires a minimum level of knowledge... don't take this as an offense, i'm not an expert but you seem to know very little about how this kind of systems are managed.

Rift's Dimension system is pretty cool and is definitely server side as it's possible to visit other dimensions. However, he glossed (more like shellacked) over the important bit: Dimensions are all instanced.

FFXIV's housing system is supposed to be communal. That's why the wards instead of just making a Housing instance where your house exists and nothing else. The idea was to create a neighborhood in a natural-feeling setting. Now they've seriously underestimated the demand, which is a major problem as has been thoroughly explored in this and other threads since the system was introduced. And since FFXIV's housing gates other content, the problem is compounded. They had a chance to fix this when they introduced the subdivisions, but opted for a half-measure instead of an actual solution.

That being said, I do think separate wards for personal housing makes a lot of sense, even though you'd still run into the same problem. There needs to be a way for the server to dynamically spawn additional wards after a certain population level has been reached in existing wards. Once again we come back to needing better servers than we apparently have.

Oh btw,

Wards don't take server memory, this would do nothing, separate wards for personal hosing would work.

That doesn't make any sense. Of course the wards require server memory. They are constructs within the game world where interaction is possible. The wards aren't being handled client-side beyond the basic layout of the zone; everything else is populated by the server live.

[Bishop81]

Rift's Dimension system is pretty cool and is definitely server side as it's possible to visit other dimensions. However, he glossed (more like shellacked) over the important bit: Dimensions are all instanced.

Instanced is better than no house at all. FFXIV's current system doesn't scale. There are a total of 8 wards, 60 houses per ward, total of 480 houses per server with population of thousands ...

they've seriously underestimated the demand,

Understatement of the century.

[Renik]

snip

The wards take sever memory but it's the same amount as any other area, even less, because there's no combat nor roaming NPCs, what i mean is that wards are not taking the memory needed to add more housing, it's just a really small portion compared to the data stored for every house, while houses have to save items, positions, permissions... in the case of houses we are talking about physical memory HHDs, and probably a network upgrade as well.

Anyway, neighborhoods are not causing any trouble, and the lack of plot is not in any case related to it.

Also, being able to visit others' dimension on rift doesn't make it server-side, and as i said (and SE said before) being instanced or not has little to do with the amount of data stored, this is very simple, more options and less presets, more data, instance or open it doesn't matter.

They are server-side as people can visit your dimension whether you are online or not.

Now this can make it server-side, unless you have to add the owner as friend or something like that.

[Akuryu]

Ok now show us their server structure, if these have an impact on gameplay outside of housing, if they are client-side or server-side and how susceptible they are to hacking.

They are server-side as people can visit your dimension whether you are online or not.

he glossed (more like shellacked) over the important bit: Dimensions are all instanced.

Of course they are instanced, and that is not at all a bad thing. I would gladly take substantial personal housing for all players over the "here's a few hundred houses for a server with thousands of people" system any day. You won't have next-door neighbors. That's literally all you lose out on. Even then you could have a dimension large enough for multiple houses, then share it with 2-3 friends. There: neighbors.