Specialist System in 3.0

[Thrustie]

That's actually a very dangerous trap.. I've driven a few people out of market for doing exactly that.
When I sell about 50% above cost, they would try to buy out, and hike the price.. but the problem is.. To a very hardcore crafter like myself.. I craft about 10+ hrs a day because my work affords me the option to just click a macro every minute.. and yet I can't really do much else since I'm working.. so I'm sorta forced to craft and chat.. I can actually handle the entire server's demand.. Maybe 80% on weekends. In fact, because of continuing competition, price will eventually drop down to the point you bought the items at anyway.. So if you want to resell things, it has to be done FAST.. Especially right after an expansion.


So if you try to buy me out, I'll keep feeding you overstock and while my price point remains the same, your price point will get bloated.. Unless you wise up and sell at a loss to get rid of your overstock, you're never gonna get out of the market..

and that's how most people maintain their grip on MB..

While all this is happening, if you happen to be locked into a specific market because of specialization.. It'll be very difficult for you..

See to me you kinda reinforce what SE is trying to accomplish. Market board Moguls like you already control the market today. I've competed with guys like you and it's not very fun. I'm specialized in LTW/WVR and while I enjoy the MB, I don't really love camping out at the summoning bell. I still make a tidy profit by undercutting at an opportune time like when the moguls are taking a dump or maybe a 30 minute power nap. Or when a customer is actually shockingly astute enough to recognize that my Kirikimu Brais in the city they're currently in is actually cheaper than buying the pair listed 100 Gil cheaper in a different city.

With specializations, what changes? Well maybe a few moguls are deterred and either hang it up or focus one or two markets. And maybe a few moguls level 7 alts and do what they did before. What changes for me? I gear a couple specializations and do what I did before. But MAYBE there's a few less moguls undercutting my stuff. And for the ones who are still around, maybe it buys me some extra time to make a couple sales while they're pooping, power napping AND jumping alts and checking retainers!

[Gillionaire]

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Well, to be fair, there's no reason people like me would stop competing on the MB.. Only thing specialization will bring about is lock you into the competition for however long the delay is in switching your specialization instead of just being able to change your market and move on.
That same limitation will be imposed on many of us, not ALL omnicrafters are going to be running 8 characters.. So the way I see it, GSM/WVR/LTW will see some very stiff competition among many people, but the market will be controlled by only a few (i.e. most people will be one of those three specializations but won't make any money off of it). Everything else will have an inflated price over all because of their lack of supply..

Well maybe a few moguls are deterred and either hang it up or focus one or two markets.

That part is what I think will be most detrimental.. It'll make the competition more fierce than currently is because the pool gets smaller.



P.S. Btw, the scenario I described regarding my undercutting tactic doesn't occur all around the MB. At least not on Jenova. That kind of competition ONLY exists in highly specialized markets. I am already a specialist if you consider that I only sell 2-3 items on the MB.. That's why that kind of competition exists, so in terms of my earning potential, specialization will probably do little to faze me once I figure out what market I'll be in. But, it WILL get rid of the generalists that compete a little here and a little there which I think is a healthy way to go about creating competition. i.e. 4 star gear right now is pretty stable because each person makes a few of this and a few of that.. If people were to specialize though, that could all change.


P.P.S. Can you imagine making your own off hands for crafting? Depending on the "delay" if it's in the order of a day or more, you may have to stick with BSM until you finish getting all 6 of your off hands.. While you're doing that, you probably aren't making any money and that also forces you into a progression path that is not very flexible to you because time will be yet another factor that need not exist.. It's already plenty difficult to gear yourself up from scratch, but at least right now you can choose which one to get first.. I suppose you can with specialization also, it'll just take longer because of the imposed delay.

[Aeyis]

I've competed with guys like you and it's not very fun

What you are competing with right now is others (like yourself) that have specialized in those markets.
That's not going to change..but right now you can change markets at will; as long as you have other crafters leveled and geared.
You mention having LTW/WVR as ''specialization'' keep in mind that there's more specializations then just 3*/4*, or whatever your highest craftable level is.

[Thrustie]

What you are competing with right now is others (like yourself) that have specialized in those markets.
That's not going to change..but right now you can change markets at will; as long as you have other crafters leveled and geared.
You mention having LTW/WVR as ''specialization'' keep in mind that there's more specializations then just 3*/4*, or whatever your highest craftable level is.

I can say quite assuredly that generally the ones who give me the most pain are nothing like me. The ones who are the worst are the ones who have 4 retainers full of goods from every market and literally have undercut my undercut 5 minutes after. They have every 4 star gear piece posted on the MB in every craft and the second they sell one, they have another posted.

Crafters like me check the MB once or twice a day to undercut and put up a few goods when there's low supply here and there.

[Gillionaire]

snip

Those generalists aren't too bad to deal with, you just have to specialize in one market and push them out.. Give them enough trouble (i.e. undercut them every chance you get so THEY have to keep an eye on your market even closer on top of what they ALREADY do... They'll eventually back off after finding it to be not worth their trouble.. It's the 2 specialists competing in same market scenario that gives the worst price wars, often going below the raw material costs.. because there's no quick alternative.

[Thrustie]

Those generalists aren't too bad to deal with, you just have to specialize in one market and push them out.. Give them enough trouble (i.e. undercut them every chance you get so THEY have to keep an eye on your market even closer on top of what they ALREADY do... They'll eventually back off after finding it to be not worth their trouble.. It's the 2 specialists competing in same market scenario that gives the worst price wars, often going below the raw material costs.. because there's no quick alternative.

I did that for weeks against one of them and it honestly started making me a bit mental. We were undercutting each other relentlessly multiple times an hour. And I couldnt make him give in. I thought, like you said, that eventually he'd decide I wasn't worth pulling his retainers off the market for but I was wrong. Eventually I gave up and priced mine 1k above him and just settled for sloppy seconds. Wasn't worth losing my sanity over. I can still make 5m in profit a week without the headache. The other specialists like me seem more reasonable. Yeah they undercut me but it's daily instead of 3 times an hour. Some are even content price matching with me.

[Gillionaire]

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Well, you just have to think that he has more on his plate since he has more items to make/sell/watch etc.. So you technically have an advantage in that regards.. Of course, you can only capitalize on that if you also happen to be a full time crafter like he is.. If you have any interest in raids or dungeons, you'd have trouble keeping up.

But with specialists, it gets even worse.. Let me just make it clear when I mean specialist, I don't mean 4 star capable in 1 craft. Although that's possible.
I think the specialists you refer to are probably not full time crafters, so there's some breathing room between the two of you as you both have other things to do.

I am a specialist, but I am 4 stars in everything except CUL. So I technically have the means to compete over multiple markets, I simply choose not to because I can only craft so much stuff and I learned that I can meet my entire server's demand with my crafting just barely. So I don't have enough time to diversify. (admittedly, I compete in a market that's very time intensive) But that's what makes me the money. I do plan on diversifying later when it becomes less profitable, but I've been in the same market for the past 2 months and I'm still raking in quite a bit.. That's the kind of market control a full time crafter can have when he is led to specialize (either by in-game mechanics, or by one's choosing). The only issue I foresee with the forced specialization would be exactly that, it would create pockets of really volatile market conditions with unpredictable, often gouging prices.. I'd much rather have a market with a bunch of generalists who create little bits of everything and the over all price becomes steady and predictable.

But considering the interview, it looks like that's not their goal, but I don't know.. I've just been burned way too many times in the past by MMO devs' preliminary ideas and where it ends being when finalized.. I'd really like to see more information released regarding the system.

[Aeyis]

I can say quite assuredly that generally the ones who give me the most pain are nothing like me. The ones who are the worst are the ones who have 4 retainers full of goods from every market and literally have undercut my undercut 5 minutes after. They have every 4 star gear piece posted on the MB in every craft and the second they sell one, they have another posted.

Crafters like me check the MB once or twice a day to undercut and put up a few goods when there's low supply here and there.

See that is what I disagree with. Your post is nothing but a generalization. Right now crafters either specialise in markets or do a little bit of everything. The first group is the one giving you trouble. And as you mentioned being a specialist yourself, that group includes you.

The difference between the other specialists and you is not ''level of specialization'', it simply the amount of time they put into it.
You cant compete with them because they simply have more time to spend.
Not because they ''have 4 retainers with goods from every market''
Do you know why people will have certain goods stocked up in extremely large numbers?
Because they specialise in that market.
I don't believe there is a single person that has ''every 4 star equipment posted on the mb'' either.

the second they sell one, they have another posted.

[Example]
I am doing that right now with nuggets. Not because I'm some nefarious trade baron that controls the servers board.
But because I happened to accumulate about a dozen stacks of gold ore (partially due to TT time windows).
This effectively makes rose gold nugget a market I specialise in.

However, since I can make gil in any number of markets, I won't always even have nuggets on the board.
This would change if the system forced me to specialise, and gold nuggets was something I would take to specialise in.
Since I'm now unable to change markets at will, I have no choice but to focus on this market.
Result: I become a permanent presence on the market, one capable of farming a good deal of materials on daily basis.
I would likely produce 2 more alts, trippling my production.
-> casual crafter/gatherers that also chose this as their specialization would fail to make gil, because I would always be there to undercut them.

--> another hardcore crafter produces similar amounts as I do, with the same time available for undercutting.
Result: the market crashes, the item devalues greatly.
[/Example]

[Thrustie]

Snip

Honestly I'm not generalizing. I wish I was. Maybe it's unique to my server but we literally have a few crafters that have one piece listed for every single 4 star gear piece in LTW, WVR, ARM, BSM and CRP. They do a LOT of everything. And my market is 4 star gear pieces so I don't carry a large stock since the sales are often days apart. I elected to go for big infrequent sales rather than volume quick sales. Mostly because I'm lazy and don't have a batch macro.

I get your point. I didn't realize many people dabbled in everything like that. Maybe I'm already more specialized than your average crafter. I see how that could be a detriment to your market preferences.