Specialist System in 3.0

[Ranzan]

snip

Well this specialization system won't cater to casuals because it locks them in place when someone has the market they are in on lock. If someone is controlling the market they are the ones making gil not the wait and see people. So this system is only screwing with the hardcore by making alts to compete with the others that also did .

And the main reason alot of people never got into crafting was they had to level 8 crafts for the cross class skills but in the interview it sounds like you still have to level them all and then specialize. That's not very casual sounding to me.

If was only for airship building or so people can make unique / untradeable stuff I wouldn't have a problem. Or maybe I can max out a specialization get the recipes then on to the next one would be OK as well but deep down that's not going to happen. They want less items in circulation but they don't care about the price hikes that's going to happen.

[Orangard]

snip.

The MB has no bearing on it. That is player driven. 'Locked' out of a market, or the whole market, does not stop a crafter from crafting. Everyone can still gather.

"However, for crafters up until patch 2.5, rather than the system allowing you to be any of them, to a large extent for more hardcore crafters it required you to be all of them.
... it got to an extreme situation where you had to have full equipment and everything leveled up. So while this was rewarding economincally, we recognizes that it was a tough situation for players who just wanted to have some fun while making products to sell. So we want to go back to the original plan that it's something to do at your own pace, so that's the policy at the heart of our updates with specialists."


" For people that put a lot of time into it, one of the goals of Heavensward and later the patch 3.X series is that they will have a greater economic contribution. One of the new systems is the concept of Specialsts for crafter classes. Like before, it will still be possible to develop all of the crafter classes without limit to level 60. After you finish training, you'll be able to choose a profession to qualify as a Specialist which may provide a special action or special recipes. It will also be possible to choose multiple specializations."

Hmm... sounds like you may or may not have to level all to 60, especially when added to the first quote.

Not being the biggest MB person and not being able to craft are 2 different things.

[Aeyis]

And honestly, if people want to spend their day jumping alts to 'control' the mb... good for them.
I'll still craft my stuff. Post it, and gain.

Post it, and be unable to sell it; because you will get undercut by someone that has a larger stock then you. Someone that can afford to take longer and sell for lower, because they are active in different markets at once; and do not rely on profit from that single market you are posting in.

They can buy it all out or sell a lot at a low price to..... remove profit from anyone... for a time.
I'll buy that cheap stuff, and wait till they have expended their desire to bottom a market, and then I'll sell it again. At a Higher price.

Do you honestly think you can win a trade-war against someone that went to the effort of leveling multiple characters to 60?

In the end, it is just a game.
And for some, its not the game, but the game within the game that they decided is important to them. IE, being an MB Baron/ess. To cater to those people is the wrong direction to take a game.

Just because it's a game doesn't mean there aren't things one might want to obtain; such as a house or vanity items; or better equipment.
Gil can obtain those. And to get gil you need to play the game. Use the marketboard for more then just ''oh, but I don't want to trow this away''

''it's a game'' is just a fallacy used for those without tangible arguments.

The MB has no bearing...
...................................................

..Not being the biggest MB person and not being able to craft are 2 different things.

If you have a point in there, one that is even remotely relevant to this discussion, I ask for clarification.

[Ranzan]

You could always craft with one class but I don't know about HQing thou. I don't believe they would put a auto HQ button in the specialization skill tree

[Sibyll]

She meant 8 different characters that craft. Even with desynthesis there's no need to have more than one max melded currently. You can do Ixali easily in unmelded 2.0 gear.

You still need to level 8 classes from 1-50. Ixali also are daily limited. So once again, imagine how idiotic it would be if you were required to level all the DoW/DoM classes just so you could raid on your main class. Regardless of how easily or trivial you believe it to be to cap DoH classes, the concept that you are required to level all of them to excel at one of them is asinine.

[Zfz]

The devs are moving in a terribly dangerous direction, in my opinion. Instead of designing a vast canvass, so vast that most people don't bother covering the whole canvass, naturally resulting in a specialization economy, the devs have chosen to cut up that canvass with the new system to artificially limit each player's canvass, forcing people to specialize. The weekly capped tomestone is the same philosophy.

If the vast canvass is the liberty and all-men-are-equal society, then the cut-up canvass is the cast system where being born into the "wrong" specialization you'll live with a shaft in your *cough* until the next patch.

Note how Yoshi-P said you could still cap out "all classes" but said you could choose "multiple specializations", not "all specializations". It is obvious that the specialization system is an exclusive one.

[Orangard]

.

There seem to be a few guiding principles to the argument against this specialization.
1) No more Omni crafting (can't have everything available at the click of a button on demand)
2) Due to 1), the rat race as it were. Cannot compete on the same level with those who have alts + more time due to restrictions.

I understand both TBH. I just so happens that the most vocal about 2) are brought about in a sense that if They cannot perform to their own set standard, No one should perform.
"Roll alts and level crafting or stop crafting"
"someone will roll alts and do stuff I can't do right now. That is unfair."
which does not apply to crafting itself, but what can or cannot be done on the marketboard (crafting is just the tool for that competition, think if raiding provided the best source of MB income). Why? Because it is not the crafting that is important. It is the Ends that are important to those arguments.

Now do tell, why I should I wage a trade war with someone? I haven't needed to, nor will I, because again, (and I presume for most) dominating the MB is not my game.

Though here is a hint, I can still make profit off other's trade wars. As I said.
If they want to sell stuff at cost or less, I can buy it, and wait till they are done and sell it for higher.


And just so you know, "its' just a game" was not used as an argument. It was used as a reminder.

[Orangard]

I just wish they'd made it a little more clear whether it would be a few hours, 24 hours, or a week. I honestly don't mind if all I have to do is just go to the guildmaster and speak to them (if your status with the guild is saved) and craft what I need, and switch back. But if that is indeed the case, doesn't it make you wonder why such a barrier would exist? What would be the point of it after all?

That I can get behind. Perhaps it may be more in line with immersion, ie you can hook up with a guildmaster, learn the stuff (not be restricted afterwards at all.? ) yet not be able to apply to another guildmaster until say a week has passed.

Either way, with out the facts on it, we just need to not fall into the trap of presuming our assumptions are correct (good or bad) until we do get the facts.

I am all for the presentation of the potential pitfall's of a system for the dev's to see though.

[Gillionaire]

Now do tell, why I should I wage a trade war with someone? I haven't needed to, nor will I, because again, (and I presume for most) dominating the MB is not my game.

Though here is a hint, I can still make profit off other's trade wars. As I said.
If they want to sell stuff at cost or less, I can buy it, and wait till they are done and sell it for higher.

That's actually a very dangerous trap.. I've driven a few people out of market for doing exactly that.
When I sell about 50% above cost, they would try to buy out, and hike the price.. but the problem is.. To a very hardcore crafter like myself.. I craft about 10+ hrs a day because my work affords me the option to just click a macro every minute.. and yet I can't really do much else since I'm working.. so I'm sorta forced to craft and chat.. I can actually handle the entire server's demand.. Maybe 80% on weekends. In fact, because of continuing competition, price will eventually drop down to the point you bought the items at anyway.. So if you want to resell things, it has to be done FAST.. Especially right after an expansion.


So if you try to buy me out, I'll keep feeding you overstock and while my price point remains the same, your price point will get bloated.. Unless you wise up and sell at a loss to get rid of your overstock, you're never gonna get out of the market..

and that's how most people maintain their grip on MB..

While all this is happening, if you happen to be locked into a specific market because of specialization.. It'll be very difficult for you..

[Orangard]

Risk/reward I have learned from those mistakes.

with your example, yes, it would have to be a fast flip... but that also requires more demand, and if you can handle the entire servers demand... your server needs moar people!

Thats not what I meant though, it was in reference to a few people having a price war... undercutting and holding the market down. That generally does not last a long time, thus I invest. Buy while its cheap, hold till the price goes up then sell.
Since the MB isn't the main of my game, I can hold onto things for a while.