Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Aikaal]

In a vacuum, SMN and BLM both provide decent utility. I would even argue that Combat raise, Supervirus, and Eye 4 and Eye are superior to Apocatastasis, Manaward/Manawall, and Lethargy.

The issue is that SCH brings all the same utility as a SMN, which a raid will certainly have. SMN's utility is thus redundant and never needed, and that has more to do with it being part of the only 2-job class.

This is a lie. Let's look at those utility spells.

• Super Virus is reduced to a regular Virus because you have a Scholar. So both BLM and SMN Virus is negated.
• Eye for an Eye can be used by BLM, they are negated.
• Combat raise is not viable. You need mana and healers can handle 2 to 3 raises easily. In farm content, you will never combat raise because your party won't die to farm content. The only unique utility spell becomes void.

I do hope Summoners get a buff, they need it. But you need to know your job doesn't have the tools nor the weapons to compete right now.

Shadow flare is pretty useless. Its really weak and a lot of the bosses are immune to slow, so why even use it outside of killing adds?

Shadow Flare is a DPS gain in single target.

[Romsca]

• Super Virus is reduced to a regular Virus because you have a Scholar. So both BLM and SMN Virus is negated.
• Eye for an Eye can be used by BLM, they are negated.
• Combat raise is not viable. You need mana and healers can handle 2 to 3 raises. In farm content, you will never combat raise because your party won't die to farm content.

I do hope Summoners get a buff, they need it. But you need to know your job doesn't have the tools nor the weapons to compete right now.

How does a summoners supervirus become normal virus when there is a scholar in group? We don't lose traits. How does having more than one player with e4e negate it? More up time means higher chance of proc'ing and reducing damage. And Cebo was talking comparison.

And Summoner does have the tools to compete. We just have a slight oversight by Square Enix that is hindering our class, namely small mana pool and under balanced weapon damage.

[Aikaal]

How does a summoners supervirus become normal virus when there is a scholar in group? We don't lose traits. How does having more than one player with e4e negate it? More up time means higher chance of proc'ing and reducing damage. And Cebo was talking comparison.

And Summoner does have the tools to compete. We just have a slight oversight by Square Enix that is hindering our class, namely small mana pool and under balanced weapon damage.

Virus - 90 Seconds Cooldown.
Reduces target's STR, DEX, INT, and MND by 15%.
Duration: 10s
Grants target immunity to the same effect for 1 minute after effect ends

Can't stack them on the boss. It was too powerful and got nerfed. There is no point to to have two super-virus for one boss unless there's a high magic damage add in the fight which is not the case.

[Odowla]

Can't stack them on the boss. It was too powerful and got nerfed. There is no point to to have two super-virus for one boss unless there's a high magic damage add in the fight which is not the case.

Essentially he's saying that it doesnt really matter if you have virus.. the big-hit attacks that need virus, already will be by the scholar. E4E is an ability all the casters have, the trait only reduces the cooldown, and the in battle raise.. yeah... not for 30% of my mp.

On another note. If summoner have the tools to compete, why the best Summoners of this game can't even reach the best Black Mages of this game. Look at Puro's E-peen sheet. Look at DnT Leaderboard scores. the highest BLMs have pulled for T10 to T13 are respectively 583, 556, 543, 529. The best parses I saw from SMNs are about 490 to 500. They need love, they can clear the game but they are behind. It's really sad when the best of SMNs pull the numbers of average BLMs.

Can confirm this, as well as all the SMN's in the FC have converted to BLM at the start of FCoB except for 2.

Their utility isnt enough, because its shared with other classes, their damage isnt enough because with perfect play, it's way lower than a moderately skilled black mage, and the only unique thing they bring as a DPS is completetly unusable because you get 1 raise before you're done with MP, when healers get 3-4 - and a DPS being able to help push the phase is infinitely more usefull than someone avoidably needing to be raised.

[Aikaal]

On another note. If summoner have the tools to compete, why the best Summoners of this game can't even reach the best Black Mages of this game. Look at Puro's E-peen sheet. Look at DnT Leaderboard scores. the highest BLMs have pulled for T10 to T13 are respectively 583, 556, 543, 529. The best parses I saw from SMNs are about 490 to 500. They need love, they can clear the game but they are behind. It's really sad when the best of SMNs pull the numbers of average BLMs.

[Cebo]

This is a lie. Let's look at those utility spells.

• Super Virus is reduced to a regular Virus because you have a Scholar. So both BLM and SMN Virus is negated.
• Eye for an Eye can be used by BLM, they are negated.
• Combat raise is not viable. You need mana and healers can handle 2 to 3 raises easily. In farm content, you will never combat raise because your party won't die to farm content. The only unique utility spell becomes void.

You missed my point, since it appears we'd be in agreement. I'm only saying SMN utility is better than BLM's in a vacuum, if you ignore the fact that other classes can provide that same utility, notably scholars. Since SMN utility is already covered by other classes, they don't bring anything of value to the raid.