Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[loreleidiangelo]

Another idea for the expansion is to make SMN a semi-support job like the Bard, giving them pets that provide utility like party MP/TP regen, DPS buffs, etc. In this way, their lower damage to BLM can be justified, and Bards would no longer be a requirement in every raid comp.

I suggested this exact same thing on Lavieh's huge SMN thread a while back, incidentally. We're doing about as much DPS as a BRD anyway; why not give us something similar to their utility? To people who enjoy SMN as a strict DPS job, though, a retooling like that would possibly make them main something else. I'm for it, though.

[Akiza]

I suggested this exact same thing on Lavieh's huge SMN thread a while back, incidentally. We're doing about as much DPS as a BRD anyway; why not give us something similar to their utility? To people who enjoy SMN as a strict DPS job, though, a retooling like that would possibly make them main something else. I'm for it, though.

SE can't give Summoner the utility similar to the Bard because the Machinist will have support utility similar to Bards.

[Lavieh]

SE can't give Summoner the utility similar to the Bard because the Machinist will have support utility similar to Bards.

Is this an SE official statement or just an Akiza official statement?

[Viridiana]

Is this an SE official statement or just an Akiza official statement?

Just an Akiza one, as far as I'm aware. We've heard no details (that I'm aware of) on the playstyle of any of the three new classes.

[scarebearz]

I think the problem is exacerbated because of how far ahead melee are to ranged. Because of this, there's only room for one caster job, so SMN and BLM are competing for that spot. The single target DPS difference may only be 25-40, but when BLM also bring much superior AOE, burst, resource management, and utility, it pretty much leaves SMN neglected.

Another idea for the expansion is to make SMN a semi-support job like the Bard, giving them pets that provide utility like party MP/TP regen, DPS buffs, etc. In this way, their lower damage to BLM can be justified, and Bards would no longer be a requirement in every raid comp.

Agree with all except the blm superior utility xD

The already noticable melee difference does make things worse for SMN (and bard for that matter I guess, but bard does have a much needed raid spot).

[SomnusNemoris]

BLM has slightly better utility because it's actually useful as a BLM. Raise can be alright, but no one brings a SMN for their raise, nor do the majorty of SMN have to use Raise. It does have enhanced E4E and Virus, but those are again, very situational skills in which the SMN does not use it most of the time. Especially in Final Coil, I have always felt that having manawall, manaward, apocatastesis are nice bonusses to what a SMN can't do or actually should do in order to make it have better utility than Black Mage.
I would argue that having no unique utility, at all, makes the utility you have weak. Gigaflare? SCH should use the virus. Nerf cloud? SCH should use the virus. E4E? Useless most of the time and SCH can use it. Raise? Total MP killer and a SCH with good MP management will raise over you all the time. SMN has the potentional for good utility but doesn't have to use it at all. This can be said about BLM, you don't have to use those three skills I mentioned, but they are very handy because they are unique. Manawall during earth shakers or to take the Benu? Takes a lot of stress from the healers. Manaward? Saves my ass a couple of times. Apoc? Godly on Akh Morn, switching of the flame, weakened target for Imdugud Charge, Weakend target or target with stacks during nerf cloud ... BLM to me at least, has been a LOT more useful in terms of utility.
Although I would say that well, having that Raise can be very handy or when SCH is dead, it can be handy to use virus yourself. I would however, from my own raiding experience, still claim that BLM has better utility, but not superior.

[Lavieh]

I suggested this exact same thing on Lavieh's huge SMN thread a while back, incidentally. We're doing about as much DPS as a BRD anyway; why not give us something similar to their utility? To people who enjoy SMN as a strict DPS job, though, a retooling like that would possibly make them main something else. I'm for it, though.

This would be a really cool idea IMO. Their toolkit would have to include some sort of TP boon though, otherwise BRD will never be replaced.

[Romsca]

BLM has slightly better utility because it's actually useful as a BLM. Raise can be alright, but no one brings a SMN for their raise, nor do the majorty of SMN have to use Raise. It does have enhanced E4E and Virus, but those are again, very situational skills in which the SMN does not use it most of the time. Especially in Final Coil, I have always felt that having manawall, manaward, apocatastesis are nice bonusses to what a SMN can't do or actually should do in order to make it have better utility than Black Mage.
I would argue that having no unique utility, at all, makes the utility you have weak. Gigaflare? SCH should use the virus. Nerf cloud? SCH should use the virus. E4E? Useless most of the time and SCH can use it. Raise? Total MP killer and a SCH with good MP management will raise over you all the time. SMN has the potentional for good utility but doesn't have to use it at all. This can be said about BLM, you don't have to use those three skills I mentioned, but they are very handy because they are unique. Manawall during earth shakers or to take the Benu? Takes a lot of stress from the healers. Manaward? Saves my ass a couple of times. Apoc? Godly on Akh Morn, switching of the flame, weakened target for Imdugud Charge, Weakend target or target with stacks during nerf cloud ... BLM to me at least, has been a LOT more useful in terms of utility.
Although I would say that well, having that Raise can be very handy or when SCH is dead, it can be handy to use virus yourself. I would however, from my own raiding experience, still claim that BLM has better utility, but not superior.

I somewhat agree that summoners utility outside of dps is lacking. I wouldn't over look the value of two supervirus in the group. And If black mage had access to resurrection, not raise from cnj, then black mage would probably be expected as the go to revive due to their high combat mana regeneration. Now if summoners had a much larger mana pool, which is what we should have due to aetherflow mechanics, then they would be first for revives unless swiftcast is on cd. But this just a hyper theoretical look at the situation.

[Sanguisio]

The benefit from a 2nd super virus is usually overlooked, and I dont get why !
Plus the slow from a SMN is better.

[Lavieh]

The benefit from a 2nd super virus is usually overlooked, and I dont get why !
Plus the slow from a SMN is better.

There aren't really any uses for a second Super Virus and slow in really any encounter though.

Pretty sure that BLM gets a 40% slow too though.