Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Aikaal]

There aren't really any uses for a second Super Virus and slow in really any encounter though.

Pretty sure that BLM gets a 40% slow too though.

Blizzard 1 gives 40% movement reduction. If you want to go further in this argument. Black Mages are superior because they also have Letargy that is a 20% movement reduction + 20% slow on skills and spells.

[SomnusNemoris]

The benefit from a 2nd super virus is usually overlooked, and I dont get why !
Plus the slow from a SMN is better.

It is only useful when the SCH dies because when you use virus, it has a 40 seconds anti body. In other words, there would have to be two moves that need to be supervirussed over a 40 second time period for the second super virus to be useful (truly useful). This isn't the case. SMN slow is inferior and also the SCH can slow .

[Bigcat9715]

Shadow flare is pretty useless. Its really weak and a lot of the bosses are immune to slow, so why even use it outside of killing adds?

[Romsca]

There aren't really any uses for a second Super Virus and slow in really any encounter though.

Pretty sure that BLM gets a 40% slow too though.

Black Mage has lethargy, heavy & slow at 20% for 12 seconds and 30 second cd, and I believe subject to diminishing return / immunity along with lancers' feint ability. Summoner has shadowflare, 30 second duration and idk what % slow as I think the tooltip is worded funny. Could be 5%, could be 20%. But difference also is that shadoflare deals damage whereas lethargy does not and not subject to diminishing return/ immunity.

[Cebo]

In a vacuum, SMN and BLM both provide decent utility. I would even argue that Combat raise, Supervirus, and Eye 4 and Eye are superior to Apocatastasis, Manaward/Manawall, and Lethargy.

The issue is that SCH brings all the same utility as a SMN, which a raid will certainly have. SMN's utility is thus redundant and never needed, and that has more to do with it being part of the only 2-job class.

[Aikaal]

In a vacuum, SMN and BLM both provide decent utility. I would even argue that Combat raise, Supervirus, and Eye 4 and Eye are superior to Apocatastasis, Manaward/Manawall, and Lethargy.

The issue is that SCH brings all the same utility as a SMN, which a raid will certainly have. SMN's utility is thus redundant and never needed, and that has more to do with it being part of the only 2-job class.

This is a lie. Let's look at those utility spells.

• Super Virus is reduced to a regular Virus because you have a Scholar. So both BLM and SMN Virus is negated.
• Eye for an Eye can be used by BLM, they are negated.
• Combat raise is not viable. You need mana and healers can handle 2 to 3 raises easily. In farm content, you will never combat raise because your party won't die to farm content. The only unique utility spell becomes void.

I do hope Summoners get a buff, they need it. But you need to know your job doesn't have the tools nor the weapons to compete right now.

Shadow flare is pretty useless. Its really weak and a lot of the bosses are immune to slow, so why even use it outside of killing adds?

Shadow Flare is a DPS gain in single target.

[Romsca]

• Super Virus is reduced to a regular Virus because you have a Scholar. So both BLM and SMN Virus is negated.
• Eye for an Eye can be used by BLM, they are negated.
• Combat raise is not viable. You need mana and healers can handle 2 to 3 raises. In farm content, you will never combat raise because your party won't die to farm content.

I do hope Summoners get a buff, they need it. But you need to know your job doesn't have the tools nor the weapons to compete right now.

How does a summoners supervirus become normal virus when there is a scholar in group? We don't lose traits. How does having more than one player with e4e negate it? More up time means higher chance of proc'ing and reducing damage. And Cebo was talking comparison.

And Summoner does have the tools to compete. We just have a slight oversight by Square Enix that is hindering our class, namely small mana pool and under balanced weapon damage.

[Aikaal]

How does a summoners supervirus become normal virus when there is a scholar in group? We don't lose traits. How does having more than one player with e4e negate it? More up time means higher chance of proc'ing and reducing damage. And Cebo was talking comparison.

And Summoner does have the tools to compete. We just have a slight oversight by Square Enix that is hindering our class, namely small mana pool and under balanced weapon damage.

Virus - 90 Seconds Cooldown.
Reduces target's STR, DEX, INT, and MND by 15%.
Duration: 10s
Grants target immunity to the same effect for 1 minute after effect ends

Can't stack them on the boss. It was too powerful and got nerfed. There is no point to to have two super-virus for one boss unless there's a high magic damage add in the fight which is not the case.

[Aikaal]

On another note. If summoner have the tools to compete, why the best Summoners of this game can't even reach the best Black Mages of this game. Look at Puro's E-peen sheet. Look at DnT Leaderboard scores. the highest BLMs have pulled for T10 to T13 are respectively 583, 556, 543, 529. The best parses I saw from SMNs are about 490 to 500. They need love, they can clear the game but they are behind. It's really sad when the best of SMNs pull the numbers of average BLMs.

[Odowla]

Can't stack them on the boss. It was too powerful and got nerfed. There is no point to to have two super-virus for one boss unless there's a high magic damage add in the fight which is not the case.

Essentially he's saying that it doesnt really matter if you have virus.. the big-hit attacks that need virus, already will be by the scholar. E4E is an ability all the casters have, the trait only reduces the cooldown, and the in battle raise.. yeah... not for 30% of my mp.

On another note. If summoner have the tools to compete, why the best Summoners of this game can't even reach the best Black Mages of this game. Look at Puro's E-peen sheet. Look at DnT Leaderboard scores. the highest BLMs have pulled for T10 to T13 are respectively 583, 556, 543, 529. The best parses I saw from SMNs are about 490 to 500. They need love, they can clear the game but they are behind. It's really sad when the best of SMNs pull the numbers of average BLMs.

Can confirm this, as well as all the SMN's in the FC have converted to BLM at the start of FCoB except for 2.

Their utility isnt enough, because its shared with other classes, their damage isnt enough because with perfect play, it's way lower than a moderately skilled black mage, and the only unique thing they bring as a DPS is completetly unusable because you get 1 raise before you're done with MP, when healers get 3-4 - and a DPS being able to help push the phase is infinitely more usefull than someone avoidably needing to be raised.