Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Lilyarel]

I've been looking around the net an I've been getting a lot of mixed messages. Posts about Summoner being top DPS and posts about Summoner being subpar. I've even seen posts about people kicking Summoner because of said DPS.

Can anyone explain why?

[Skeith-Adeline]

They are fine lol. I disunderstand the gracious amount of issues with SMNs. It stemed from FCoB Mana issues and choosing BLMs over them, but some fights favor other classes. Most of the complaints I feel aren't from people in final coil lol. Many groups are successful with SMNs in their groups in final coil.

[zcrash970]

Basically:
1.) if SMNs do not use Energy Drain and use our stacks for strictly Festers,I think we can last 3 minutes and 30 seconds to about 4 minutes I believe without Mage's Ballad while other DPS jobs, excluding BLM, can go 4 minutes plus without the use of Army's Paeon. In a typical endgame static, there are 2 DoWs and 2 DoMs or 3 DoWs and 1 DoMs when it comes to DPSs. Out of these two setups, Army's Paeon is better to use instead of Ballad since it would always affect more players. There is no point in playing Ballad if only your SMN needs MP. You'll be better off playing Foes or Paeon if the static is composed of 3 DoWs.

2.) Our battle raise is completely worthless when it comes to the FCoB or any content, in my opinion. If you have someone die in the FCoB, you might as well reset the fight. The rez order always go SCH>WHM>SMN. If people are dying so fast that it comes to the SMN to rez then there is a serious issue and not to mention the massive drain it is to our mp and waste of a swiftcast. Granted the utility of supervirus and the shorter cd on "Eye for an Eye" is great and all, it is hardly fight saving.

3.) The FcoB has adds...tons and tons of adds. We have to use another aetherflow stack on Bane and even more mp on setting DoTs on these adds. BLM can easily use AoEs without any real cost to their DPS, it's their specialty after all.

4.) GOD THE SPELL SPEED @.@... Such a useless stat for SMNs. No matter how minor the DPS change there is from secondary stats, it is a wasted stat for us. Not to mention the amount of MP bleed it results in when we have too much ruin spam and us messing up DoTs recasts.

I think I covered the main concerns of endgame SMNs but I am probably forgetting some.

BTW this is coming from an ex endgame SMN and raider....I can't find a new static T____T

p.s.: sorry for all the typos and grammar mistakes, it's like 5AM right now and I'm sleepy

EDIT: I forgot to include #4

[OdKrys]

Most of the complaints I feel aren't from people in final coil lol. Many groups are successful with SMNs in their groups in final coil.

That's right. my dpses in FCOB are (with 120WP) : T10 430, T11 400 (Cube with Ifrit, cause our static has blm and smn), T12 430 (handling bluefire)
i think those dpses are enough to clear for FCOB though i didnt cleard t13 yet.
but, melee is specialized in one target and caster stronger than melee in AOE in almost MMOs.
compare to another caster;BLM, my static's BLM show that more dps than mine 15~20+ though we have similar gears.
besides, my MP was drained out in 5min without energy drain, cause FCOB have many adds except for t11.
so now there aren't certain reason to play SMN, exclude only playing SMN player like me.

[ViviAnimus]

Then your BLM is alright, but not super great. A good BLM will easily get 500 DPS on both T10 and 11. On T12 a good BLM will get 480+. And on T13 on my BLM I push 460 DPS (unmerged with a lvl 120 weapon).
Most of the complains that come from people who clear content are legitimate and are blindly disregarded by Skeith, so it would seem. There literally have been 30+ treats by now discussing the summoner issues.
One of the biggest issue is the MP drainage and being punishing for being a good Summoner. The second issue is that the damage is not sustained at all, especially as the fight drags on. Summoner DPS drops and drops and there is no real way to get it back up, even with Fester. Third issue is that the gear is not optimized for Summoner.
Skeith is full of shit because I know at least three servers where Summoner usage has been falling like snow in Christmas.

[ViviAnimus]

Summoner should still have HIGHER ST DPS than BLM. It should be better than BLM on T10 and 11. BLM should reign supreme on T12 and 13. Right now BLM is better on EVERY fight. How people can claim there are no issues is just beyond me.

[OdKrys]

Then your BLM is alright, but not super great. A good BLM will easily get 500 DPS on both T10 and 11. On T12 a good BLM will get 480+. And on T13 on my BLM I push 460 DPS (unmerged with a lvl 120 weapon).
Summoner should still have HIGHER ST DPS than BLM.

i agreed all your 3 issues. but i cant believe that blm easily get 500 dps lol. http://www.twitch.tv/saerysthia/c/5653653 a month ago video.
(and that holy shit WAR close to 400dps in t11 LOL)
This party cleard t10 just in 7:30 and this blm manage to touch 500 dps with 130wp and 125+ IL before i checked.
i am surprised at your awesome confidence. can u show me ur any parse or video as SMN pov ' o'/?
that's fine even dummy parse.

[zcrash970]

inb4 Akiza

All SMN really needs is a good rebalancing. Just lower mp costs or up the gain of piety when we equip the SMN soul stone. Maybe slightly raise our DoTs potencies.
nothing crazy
Which brings up another issue. SE can't easily buff SMN because it will buff ACN which will buff SCH which is currently doing well.

[ViviAnimus]

SE can buff Summoner easily if you only take the time to actually think about it. You can up the potency of Fester and your pet. That is all that is really needed. You can implement the Crit trait on your pet to momentarily increase your Crit chance. There are plently of options for a small buff.
@ Oldkrys, I am not an awesome black mage. I do 450-460 DPS with ilvl 120 and 120 weapon opn T10. Also remember that the BLM is limit breaking. On T11 I get around 440 DPS on T12 I get around 440 as well with LB and T13 is really good for BLM, I have around 450-460 unmerged parse. I don't know why you would ask for a SMN PoV, though. I haven't touched SMN since them being screwed over. I won't get nowhere near on my Summoner.

[scribble92]

SE can buff Summoner easily if you only take the time to actually think about it. You can up the potency of Fester and your pet. That is all that is really needed. You can implement the Crit trait on your pet to momentarily increase your Crit chance. There are plently of options for a small buff.

I keep seeing post about increasing pet damage or the potency of fester. How will this resolve current issues. Sure it will increase dps. However it doesnt resolve any mana issues and dps will still drop off massively trying to conserve mana