Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Orrias]

Yea but it's Akiza who assumes everyone hated SMN since 2013 :P

I think his/her opinions change as often, and as quickly, as each of the revolutions of the wind turbines in your forum gif.

[ViviAnimus]

If you think that 40 DPS difference is acceptable when BLM has better single target damage, AoE damage, resource management and arguably utility, then something is wrong with you and you don't give a damn about your class. Or you have a severe case of servitute. If I misread of misrepresented, I apologize.

[Judge_Xero]

If SE can't acknowlegde the obvious DPS gap between casters even without MP issues, then something is wrong with SE and they have no clue as to what they're doing regarding class management. Although they do speak about classes being stronger. The BLM buff was also supposedly small, but it did the job. Now SMN is at hand

I think part of the issue with SMN is the complexity of the issue that effects it's DPS performance. I'm sure they don't want to put BLM out of the limelight by buffing SMN too much.

I'm not sure if I would like to see SMN utility much higher (Pets give passive party buffs etc) because making SMN almost mandatory for progression similar to Bard again, puts BLM in a bad spot too.

It is something they are looking into, so I'd rather things be fixed long term. I can't imagine how hard it would be to balance the variable damage of a DOT class. Like endgame SMN's are doing almost the same damage in i130 as they were in i115 just because their party members are killing stuff too fast for DOTS to tick. When your party members effect you that much, there's a major issue.

They may just need more variation in the way they do damage, in order to be competitive in all styles of fights without being OP in others, but I hope SE can sort it out for 3.0.

What I mean by more Variable.

- Buff Ruin/Ruin II Potency for each of the 3 DOTs on the mob you are attacking.

- Fester - 300 Potency (remove the dot/potency buff)

That way you have more variation on mobs that need to die fast VS a single boss mob you constantly attack.

[Sleigh]

Like endgame SMN's are doing almost the same damage in i130 as they were in i115 just because their party members are killing stuff too fast for DOTS to tick. When your party members effect you that much, there's a major issue.

BLM DPS gets affected negatively too by fast kill times, and is very much tied to party - Foe's, Selene, amount of Flares on adds, letting BLM sit still for mechanics, all a group effort for sure and a party can hurt a BLM just as bad as SMN. I think it's just that long-lasting DoTs on adds were the only saving grace a SMN had in T10, 12, or 13, so you'll notice that loss more in current gear.

[Judge_Xero]

BLM DPS gets affected negatively too by fast kill times, and is very much tied to party - Foe's, Selene, amount of Flares on adds, letting BLM sit still for mechanics, all a group effort for sure and a party can hurt a BLM just as bad as SMN. I think it's just that long-lasting DoTs on adds were the only saving grace a SMN had in T10, 12, or 13, so you'll notice that loss more in current gear.

Oh yeah there's no doubt that BLM DPS is effected by the party as well. But it's one thing to ask your Bard to play Foes or the SCH to use Selene, but to ask your party to stop killing things so your DOTS have time to tick....well /votekick

IMO I hope that's where SMN get addressed. Being able to swap targets for burst damage outside of being able to Bane is just too weak. 3 GCD to set up Dots in order to Fester something that your DOTs may only tick a couple times on is such a waste.
500-600 Potency where a BLM is 900-1200 Potency (hurray SMN Dots are ticking on another mob, now you might be up to 1000 Potency for that time frame)
Yet in a lot of Endgame you run into those instances where a mob needs to die fast or it does something terrible. Which SMN windup is just so slow and it's ST damage is just too low to have someone else swap targets instead, i.e. Melee.

[Orrias]

If you think that 40 DPS difference is acceptable when BLM has better single target damage, AoE damage, resource management and arguably utility, then something is wrong with you and you don't give a damn about your class. Or you have a severe case of servitute. If I misread of misrepresented, I apologize.

All dps Jobs work in different ways, and flucuate in 'performance' on an encounter-to-encounter basis, if not a 'tier' basis too. If we keep to the BLM vs SMN debate, then SMN is arguably better 'performance' wise, in SCoB, when compared to BLM. At least pre-nerf anyway :P. It's the opposite for FCoB: BLM has the higher potential.

Some of the '40 dps difference' may be made up for by the ability to be able to freely cast more Ruin II filler, Shadowflares, INT pots instead of MP potions, and generally being able to constantly cast Ruin I when you desire.

[ViviAnimus]

The all jobs work in different ways has been debunked over and over again and is simply not true. It's not that in the sense that no matter how you hold a fight, look at it, BLM will outperform SMN in every turn and pretty much every fight. The only way you will outdo a BLM is when there are extremely movement heavy mechanics. In fights where SMN should reign supreme (T11 and 13), it still gets smashed to shits by BLM. On T10, where they shouldn't be too far behind, they get smashed even harder. BLM has a higher potentional in every fight. It's that simple. Overall, BLM is just so much better in every fight, in every mechanic.

For what SMN does and has to do, it should do more than SMN, at least in the ST department. 40 DPS difference is in no way or shape justified. It's based on raw DPS. When we look at other viriables such as burst, movement heavy fights and what have you, one can not help but conclude that none really favour SMN. There is no single mechanic or way of a fight that favours a SMN over a BLM and that is a problem. Although I am glad, that your terminology seems to have changed a bit from the sheer acceptance to potentional ways to close gaps. What SMN needs, all that it needs, is a harder hitting Fester, a shorter cooldown on Enkindle and more MP and the Aetherflow to scale with it).

[Kona_Nightwind]

Weren't SMN ahead of most classes in the first 2 turns of coil. And now that they are slightly behind you are losing your crap. Its not like you are behind like DRG or WAR were before there buffs. 2.0 is almost over get over it, wait to see what 3.0 has in store. SE does a really good job on balance. If you want perfect balance you may want to play a different type of game.

If it truly was an issue there would have been a greater shift in SMN class play. If you really want to get SE's attention get a few thousand SMNs to re-role.

[Orrias]

The all jobs work in different ways has been debunked over and over again and is simply not true.

I don't know what you're basing this on, but you've essentially just said that encounter mechanics don't mean anything, nor do Job dynamics, as they are all equalised...

I don't remember ever being beaten by a BLM on Levi EX., which is a fight that heavily favours SMN's over jobs.

Now, BLM will outperform SMN in every turn.

Maybe. I don't know, I haven't a sufficient amount of read outs on Savage SCoB to know whether that statement is true or not.

The only way you will outdo a BLM is when there are extremely movement heavy mechanics.

Isn't that my point: "All dps Jobs work in different ways, and flucuate in 'performance' on an encounter-to-encounter basis", which you believe is "simple not true"?

In fights where SMN should reign supreme (T11 and 13), it still gets smashed to shits by BLM. On T10, where they shouldn't be too far behind, they get smashed even harder. BLM has a higher potentional in every fight. It's that simple. Overall, BLM is just so much better in every fight, in every mechanic.

For what SMN does and has to do, it should do more than SMN, at least in the ST department. 40 DPS difference is in no way or shape justified. It's based on raw DPS. When we look at other viriables such as burst, movement heavy fights and what have you, one can not help but conclude that none really favour SMN. There is no single mechanic or way of a fight that favours a SMN over a BLM and that is a problem.

SMN's don't have the sustained dps, over a large scale fight, (to compete against BLM's) because of Fester's CD and mp starvation.

Weren't SMN ahead of most classes in the first 2 turns of coil. And now that they are slightly behind you are losing your crap. Its not like you are behind like DRG or WAR were before there buffs. 2.0 is almost over get over it, wait to see what 3.0 has in store. SE does a really good job on balance. If you want perfect balance you may want to play a different type of game.

If it truly was an issue there would have been a greater shift in SMN class play. If you really want to get SE's attention get a few thousand SMNs to re-role.

I couldn't agree more. 'Some times you're up, sometimes you're down'. If there was a sharp incline in SMN representation in FCoB (or just in general), and if it's been monitored on frequent basis, then something would have been done about it fairly quickly.

Job balance in FF14 ARR is something which I think is vastly under appreciated. Most other MMO's have either had to tune classes via patches on a frequent basis or overhaul the initial system at some point down the line. Be grateful that there isn't a flavour of the month classes/ job, yet...

[Viridiana]

Its not like you are behind like DRG or WAR were before there buffs. 2.0 is almost over get over it, wait to see what 3.0 has in store.

Actually it's almost exactly like DRG was. The only difference is that DRG would visibly die before the enrage to show you it wasn't geared enough. Everyone knew that with more gear DRG would clear FCoB, and we all still know that with enough gear SMN can clear FCoB. Heck, it doesn't even need to be the SMN getting the gear, if everyone else can pick up the slack.

As an outsider looking it, I think it's really, really odd that DRG got a buff and SMN didn't. I agree that at this point waiting for 3.0 is the thing to do, but that doesn't really excuse going an entire patch cycle underpowered. . .