Once you start giving out the Carbontwines

[NyarukoW]

CT and ST gear did not get upgrades to 90 or 110 respectively, so why would SE break that mode of operation and do upgrades for WoD gear?

On the flip side, where are the so called "raging casuals"? All I see is people raging against the so-called "casuals." People like the OP are free to express what they want or wish for, and others are able to voice their disagreement but stop with the name calling.

[Parodine]

This thread is a good reminder that there are so many dumb people on both sides who are casual and raiders. And then you remember the common factor: people. You're all just terrible people.

[Snugglebutt]

Here is what I would do if I was in charge.

Three sets of left side ilvl130 gear put into the game per class. Appearance wise unique to all three from Ironworks, Demon and the one in coils aka Dreadwyrm, the upgrade to the Demon set would look same as the ilvl120 version equaling no addition textures needing to be created. Each set has unique stat variations from the other sets but all ilvl130 in quality. The right side accessories etc pretty much similar to amount we have now.

First set is Ironworks left side which can be upgraded to Augmented ilvl130, this would be done by removing Carbons from hunts and creating a second quest NPC similar to the Lab/ST/WoD quest NPC in format. Carboncoat and Carbontwine would be available from such NPC's (two in total, one for twine and one for coats or perhaps same NPC but offers players two quests) however it would not be linked to the 24-man raids, the quests would be linked to 4-man dungeons. I figure around 10 runs of different perhaps random dungeons to earn one Carbon by proxy helping new players get groups to clear dungeons they are stuck on, the left side Carbon upgrade quest NPC will retain a weekly lockout for the time being while the right hand side aka accessory quest NPC will not have a weekly restriction.

The removal of Carbons from hunts would be in an effort to refocus hunts towards getting everything can get now plus relic/zodiac etc items for those quest lines minus the actual Carbons, the amount of allied seals would not change but perhaps the quantity needed for relic/zodiac and other such quest/upgrade items etc could be lowered just slightly in order to further encourage that route for helping with relics/zodiacs and such thus helping with the current zerg problems. Hunts becoming about vanity items, crafting items, random sort of things also present right now, housing items and relic/zodiac etc type quest line/upgrade helping items but not Carbons which would be moved to the NPC mentioned above.

The second set would be the Demon set from the 24-man raids and again would be ilvl120 from the raid but upgradable to ilvl130 through quest NPC's like the current Carbon Lab/ST/WoD one. You would not have a right hand side accessory quest NPC for that set and would use the Augmented Ironworks and others like do now. The left hand side quest NPC will again for time being have a weekly lockout just like left side in the Ironworks version I mentioned above and the upgrade item is from same as current Lab/ST/WoD quest aka have to run each one once but all three in total. In both cases (Ironworks and Demon left side sets) the lockout is only for now and gets removed further down the line as 3.0 comes nearer to release.

The third set is the ilvl130 Dreadwyrm set which requires no upgrade quest NPC because of the increased difficulty of obtaining. This would equal three unique ilvl130 left side sets with different attributes that can help in experimentation and optimization of class builds and such by proxy extending the amount of content people will engage in if wanted all three sets, you still obtain a unique looking set from each while also getting the typical egotistical style embellishments of completing harder content through what already exists like achievements, minions, titles which already get through T13 and perhaps a unique mount from WoD and a unique one from T13 to sweeten the deal.

That's what I would do.

[Its_Elodie]

I'd be all for this because some of the Wod gear has better stats on it than the ironworks does. It would at least allow for some sort of customization. I don't plan on passing fcob any time soon, so it's a nice thought to be able to make the wod stuff upgradeable. As far as the access to 130 gear for everyone, we already have it if you want to become a complete zombie and do casual content like hunts day in and day out to upgrade to 130. It's already available to casuals and non casuals. If we know we aren't available for a static and don't gaf about dreadwyrm why not give the general population another 130 option?

[Sagittarian]

I would love to see this go hand in hand with more hard open world content designed for 8 players, poppable boss mobs with hard to obtain pop items, very dangerous areas, extremely hard group Leves etc etc.

For dangerous areas it would be cool to have a void that warps you to a harder version of the zone (just change the lighting to make it all dark and ominous and fill it with tough mobs and wandering boss mobs), with that zone still being completely open world (so anybody who has the void unlocked can enter).

Reusing a zone like this would take much less resources than creating entire new areas and would give many people the danger and excitement they desire in the open world.

That is a very interesting idea for after the Reunification the Ascians keep promising threatening.

[Ossom]

There should be more ways to get iLv130 gear. One way shouldn't be heads and shoulders the better way than others.

One requires you to beat hard fights with a group of 7 other people with minimal mistakes. (Has a chance to gain multiple pieces in one week, or no pieces in one week)

The other requires you to patiently build up currency and work towards gathering upgrade pieces. (Takes at least 1 week to get some pieces and at most 3 weeks to get pieces)

If we were to add another way of getting iLv130 gear it needs to have its pros/cons too. I just don't see how WoD gear being easily upgrade to iLv130 gear will have as big of Cons as Dreadwyrm or Poes. I mean you can get 5 Body pieces in 5 Weeks and upgrade 5 Body pieces in 5 Weeks with WoD if it was upgradeable to iLv130. This completely blows Poetic's route and Dreadwyrm's route out of the water.

If you want WoD gear to be upgradeable it needs to be behind some sort of wall just like Poetics gear is or Dreadwyrm gear is.

[Ossom]

There also seems to be another misconception in this thread.That "Elitist" (Lol Elitist on such a casual game) raiders are not worth investing in for SE. Which is false.

New subscribers don't join the game after watching someone sit around in Limsa or Mist or do Hunts for hours on hours. They see top tier content, they see players bang their head against it, and they say "This looks fun as hell" and they want to join. I talk to so many people who I guess you would call casual but they don't say. "Man I'm really looking towards heavensward so I can do hunts on Dark Knight instead of Warrior."

They want to do Alexander, they want to do progression, they want to beat XYZ content when its relevant. Whats a good way SE can make this happen? (Not by giving out stronger gear to carry you through fights). By increasing incentives in these fights.

When's the last time you've seen some Odin PFs? Whose farming that for its vanity gear?

[Gardes]

When's the last time you've seen some Odin PFs? Whose farming that for its vanity gear?

Yesterday's server prime time. Also seen at least 3 pony farm PFs between the end of that prime time till now. There's a titan pony farm PF right now.

[Sorrik]

Gardes,

You belittling his post serves no purpose other than for people to chuckle at your comment (which I did), but he's trying to be serious; You're detracting from a potential conversation. (Not the first to do so either) Same thing happened with Kumabear76's post. People only want to make themselves seem snarky and smart, but you take away something more valuable in exchange... the meaning of his post. Yet again, here we have a valid argument for not giving away more 130 items while Coil gear is still relevant AND losing its value as an incentive to achieve something, and all you and others like you can focus on is the junk of the post. Utsu and Ossom may not write well, but you may have that potential and are instead squandering it. BTW the meat of Ossom's post is (paraphrasing) newcomers (I will generalize this time, but I admit to it because I believe the majority of newcomers fits the bill) to FFXIV have no idea that ponies, crafting, hunts, etc. even exist in the game.

I'm holding in my hand right now the case my hard copy disc of FFXIV:ARR for the PS4 came in. Newcomers to the Final Fantasy world will see a Black Mage on the front cover. On the back, they'll see Titan, Ifrit, Behemoth, and chocobos (also Gaius van Baelsar, but I'm not lumping that in to suit my point)... traditional figureheads of the franchise. Assuming they know nothing else of the game and lore, 2 out of 4 of those pictures on the back are RAIDS albeit weak ones, but "raiders" was the term Ossom used in his point. His is a valid argument which you trivialized. Let's step outside ARR; what is almost every cover of WoW's new expansion release? The top-tier raid or raid boss coming up. Newcomers (again I confess to my sin of generalizing - I believe there can be a distinction between correct ways to generalize/stereotype and incorrect ways to do it) have their attention to MMORPGs grabbed by raids. Start a new thread talking to SE, Blizzard, or any other MMORPG producer to gripe over it if you feel they could spread their product more efficiently.

All of the above was a little off OP topic, but I think I'm growing overly fond of my role, (self-proclaimed) Correcter of Fallacies, in this thread. For real doe ... stop detracting from valid points pls (btw not just talking about you now).

[Krr]

Yet again, here we have a valid argument for not giving away more 130 items while Coil gear is still relevant AND losing its value as an incentive to achieve something.

Pardon for the giant crop, but this is the latest post and I've seen this phrase repeated a lot. If I may:

The value of Coil gear wouldn't decrease by any factor more significant than adding Twine to CT content in the first place, especially in WoD, where you would still be limited to one i130 piece per week if you don't seek other sources of i130.

Coil gear would likely still have better itemization in many slots, unique vanity models, and the fact that full-clearing coil gives you a potential 4 additional pieces of i130 gear a week, upgrade materials notwithstanding, over the 1 piece of i130 gear you could get from CT and n additional pieces you could luck out for via hunts, credit for which is scarce due to their high value and low supply.

Also, some (a great many) players just don't want to do Coil in the first place. Giving these players i130 doesn't take any other players out of Coil. In fact, I'd guess the # of players who'd leave Coil over more i130 at least evens out with the # of players who'd dive in because they feel more confident with more HP and weapon damage.

More choices in gear, on the other hand, has nothing but a net benefit to all players. You're a minmaxer who wants to push their numbers against Coil? Here's more potential minmax options. Go. Play. You somehow like expressing a character playstyle through the terribly shallow stat design the game has? Here's more options that aren't obsolete the moment they come out. Go. Play. You were just happy killing T13 with your suit of cool-looking Dreadwyrm in the first place and are just glad you got the job done? Hey, nothing changed. (And you're probably unsubbing soon because you have the final piece of content in the game on farm anyway.) You're a mid-tier group that's having a rough time and needs a little more wiggle room on content that's 2-3 months away from being obsolete? Here's more options to give you that.

And this introduction of that choice doesn't actually increase the amount of i130 in the field already if you're tying it to the same lockout-bound item (Twine) that existed in the first place. It just adds more than one type of i130, with subtle differences in stat allocation.