Once you start giving out the Carbontwines

[Sorrik]

Minus the few "one-liner" (I'll call them) posters whom has gained the bare minimum respect from me for not being as inflammatory as the rest of the casuals, some of the first comments in opposition to that were KaedrianLiang (one-liner last post on page 1 is ridiculously biased in a blatant way) and ScarletDawn whom downright invited the elites (I'll allow Utsu to represent me... Not my first choice as she can word things poorly, but people started attacking her for no real reason, and she would side with me I feel) into this thread TO DEFEND THEMSELVES with oozing hatred out of nowhere.

[Sorrik]

You (the casuals) fired the first shots of Generalization and Prejudice in this thread. You are lucky I have an extraordinary amount of free time on my hands usually. I will take the time to lay out comprehensive material for you to contemplate rational thought should you EVER get the inclination to attempt to reconcile yours and "elitist's" differences on the OP's suggestion like any sane conversationalist would. The material is lying at your feet ... you (the select few casuals perpetuating the rift between the two factions of online RPGing in this thread) only have to stop being lazy and bend over to pick them up.

Sorry for mass-posting. I like to be thorough as I can see many of the posters here do not.

[Sessurea]

Such hate. Tssk tssk.

[JayCommon]

Sorry for mass-posting. I like to be thorough as I can see many of the posters here do not.

You can get around that arbitrarily idiotic character count by editing your post instead of having to break your thoughts up into 4 different posts.

Many people just type out what they want on a notepad, get the minimum 10 characters on a post, then go back and edit/paste their whole thing.

Should help you conserve your daily post limit a bit better

Plus, this debate is keeping me quite entertained at work

[Tiggy]

nvm Jay totally beat me to it lol.

[Sorrik]

You can get around that arbitrarily idiotic character count by editing your post instead of having to break your thoughts up into 4 different posts.

Many people just type out what they want on a notepad, get the minimum 10 characters on a post, then go back and edit/paste their whole thing.

Should help you conserve your daily post limit a bit better

Plus, this debate is keeping me quite entertained at work

Dude ... thanks. I am long-winded on topics I invest in. You're saving my forum-life right now. <3

[Kazumac]

Honestly I was surprised at how attacked I was posting my opinion in the thread. My first comment wasn't though, Mutemutt gave some honest feedback let me refine my point of view and respond. It was a relatively good experience (thanks Mutemutt!). But then I labeled a hardcore raider and elitest for having a perspective on the timing of the reward system in FFXIV (I'm not... I have no dreadwyrm and have not beaten turn 9). And labeled a whiner to boot because I some how whined about hunts and other things one of the posters labeled me with (I haven't).

So do I have to turn I my casual card because I don't see eye to eye with another casual player? Or can I have the ability to side with a different perspective and not be attacked for it by my own casual counterparts. I also did say in the context of the existing system, I do support the OPs suggestion as a quick way to increase loot options with minimal development resources but that didn't preclude me having a desire for larger change.

Maybe my perspective ends in the minority and doesn't get implemented. That's fine but at least I should make it known because feedback is valuable to a company developing software for other users (ie this game) regardless of if my suggestion is actually implemented.

I have an opinion and it isn't driven by my raiders "Ego" because I don't raid or have access to the FCOB gear. I just feel that the current system devalues one of the main reasons to go into the current end game content too quickly. I know a few people who would be more interested in FCOB if they weren't offered quick access to that teir of gear if they just wait it out. It's a design decision by SE, I understand that but as someone who kinda likes those fights I think we'd see more interest in them with a slightly different system. And to me that would be a boon to the uptake of that content.

But that's my perspective and if you don't ever have a desire to do those fights... I can see how you don't see that as an issue that needs to be addressed. That's what these discussions are for so we can better understand and debate systems to provide feedback so the developers aren't taking shots in the dark when making design decisions.

[ShanaShirayuki]

All right, I'll get into this convo, but let me bring in a different point of view. As a game designer, we have to look into the large scale of things to attempt to "predict" how players will react. In some cases, this failed miserably (the Hunt and its abuse when it launched). In the case of i130 gear, the reason why it is locked behind FCoB is quite simple. It is meant as a justifiable reward for doing FCoB. If i130 gear was available outside of FCoB, no one would do it except people who like doing it for fun, thus only a small portion of players would continue FCoB without a viable reward in place for all that (theoretical) hard grueling work. It's the risk vs reward system at its finest.

As for the argument of elitist raiders keeping i130 stuff. That's not it at all. As one person said, you have to understand why someone wants i130 gear. As it stands, i130 gear is a reward for FCoB. With FCoB being the hardest content in game at the moment, those who have it carry status. They are seen as "badass" because of it. So it stands to reason that other people want i130 gear so that they can feel badass and carry that status as well. Problem is, in its current state, upgrading WoD gear to 130 vs cranking through FCoB is quite a different challenge.

Any player can join a hunt LS and grind out seals to purchase mats for upgrading POE gear. That doesn't take skill, only patience. FCoB, on the other hand, requires players to know their roles and mechanics of the fight. They need to hit certain requirements or repeatedly fail. That kind of stuff requires skill.

But I also argue that gear doesn't equal skill either. Rather, i130 is a reward for that skill. In the end, there is the old saying; "If everyone is special, then no one is."

Before anyone goes blasting me for being an elitist, just know, i hate elitism to its absolute core (I JUST beat T5 the other day). It damages the community. I am not supporting elitists, I am simply saying that i130 should remain as rewards for those who strive to be the best in their roles.

Quite baffling how the thread continued for 16 pages after this was posted.

[Black91CRX]

Make all FCOB gear 5 levels higher than Augmented Ironworks. Problem solved.

[Sorrik]

@ ShanaShirayuki

I pointed out on Page 11 that all of the raging casuals basically ignored that post. They don't want an actual conversation with legitimate merits of opposing views, they want handouts and for people who strove for more than what was easy to consent to giving it to them without any interjection whatsoever. I wanted to post specifically to let you know I thumbs up'ed you.

@ Black91CX

This was also suggested many times to be ignored. The casuals want what we worked for free of charge and no questions asked. Unjustifiable entitlement (I described the different definitions of the word's two possible meanings earlier) and Envy.