I think its time BRD get some loving

[Tiggy]

I disagree, there may be outliers or some who do extremely good damage but those few do not make up a vast majority of people who play bards. Those that are within that category generally have to work harder to make up for the lackluster gear stats SE throw our way and many of the skill stats compared to some other DPS classes whom have better DPS gear quality and better designed skill stats. I do not believe it will make bards overpowered at all to remove the %damage debuff on the songs while playing those songs. The party dynamic will not change, it will not increase or decrease the amount of spots bards fill, it will simply increase slightly the DPS output of most bards while not being overpowered at all.

I'm sorry but you're absolutely wrong here. I have a perfect example too. Remember when the Ninja nerf happened? They explicitly said that they use dummies and party damage to find out how players are performing. In the case of the Ninja that explicitly said the best players were getting more damage out of the class than they wanted. Therefore we got the ninja nerf. They used the best players exclusively to make that decision. Not the average of players. Not the range of damage among players. Specifically they used the best players. So yes, they will balance the class around those top end "outlier" players and we have solid proof that it's how they do things based on recent history.

Also, I have to completely disagree that it won't change party dynamics, but this one could go either way. Without the debuff to damage bards would jump in personal damage but maintain their utility. We would quickly see all bard parties appearing that chain their songs along for great effect. You can't have these top end players doing massive damage and singing the whole time with no penalty.

In general though you are very much underestimating what a good bard can do.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the 'team' excuse.

The team does not benefit from the debuff, the team is not a valid excuse.

Of course they don't get a benefit from a debuff. No one does so that doesn't make sense to argue that point. It's not all about the debuff. It's not like you just get a debuff with nothing to show for it either. To ignore what a bard can do for the team is ignorant of what they bring to a party and ignorant of what they are capable of. Your suggestions would imbalance the game and are bad for the game. You clearly don't care about game balance. You clearly only care about your own epeen.

My point is the debuff does not need to exist, it does not balance the teams in any significant way

Yes, it absolutely does. Our bard specifically chooses the times for singing because of the debuff. They choose times where the damage isn't as necessary to push a phase, or kill an add fast enough. It completely changes the party dynamic for how the buffs are used and when. Saying it won't changes how the dynamic works over and over won't suddenly make that mantra reality. In several of the final coil fights right off the top of my head I know moments where this suggested change would change the way our bard and therefore our party tackles the situation. I know you're wrong because I'm out there living it and doing it. Seeing you repeat it over and over won't negate my real world experience that tells me without a shadow of a doubt that you are wrong.

[Snugglebutt]

Of course they don't get a benefit from a debuff. No one does so that doesn't make sense to argue that point. It's not all about the debuff. It's not like you just get a debuff with nothing to show for it either. To ignore what a bard can do for the team is ignorant of what they bring to a party and ignorant of what they are capable of. Your suggestions would imbalance the game and are bad for the game. You clearly don't care about game balance. You clearly only care about your own epeen.

Your basing your principle of balance on what a few are capable of in your comment and not what the majority are doing. A game should be balanced for the majority and not the few or the outliers. So to me you care less about balance than I do because your coming at it in a flawed way.

[JayCommon]

I disagree, there may be outliers or some who do extremely good damage but those few do not make up a vast majority of people who play bards.

Then all of those Bards should strive to be better players, instead of making random suggestions on the forums about how the Job is lacking.

Your basing your principle of balance on what a few are capable of in your comment and not what the majority are doing. A game should be balanced for the majority and not the few or the outliers. So to me you care less about balance than I do because your coming at it in a flawed way.

But the few and the 'outliers' are the ones who are performing their jobs correctly. The changes that all of you want to incorporate make those "few" actual good players way too overpowered (in regards to the WD as well as the song penalty)


We had the WD before. That was nerfed already because people were going into Titan HM (when it was relevant content, we are talking avg ilvl ~55-60) with 5 bards because they did enough damage to warrant not even having a limit break. 5 bard heart burn was disgusting. The WD will not be given back to us.

Everyone keeps making such a big deal about the damage penatly during song as well, when most of the people advocating it are outright confessing that songs aren't even used that much. If this penalty was removed, it would cascade into "we need more buffs because removing the penalty from songs wasn't good enough".


So in conclusion...



Your main argument here is that 95% of Bards that play suck at their job, so they need to be buffed because the players are bad?


Such logic...no wonder my static PLD told me when we first started raiding together: "I wish all Bards could play like you"