I think its time BRD get some loving

[Tiggy]

Just remove the %damage debuff that comes with songs, their removal will not turn BRD's into DPS kings

You are severely underestimating what good bards can do. It would absolutely make them overpowered to have the buffs and no song penalty at the same time. This entire suggestion appears to ignore any game balance because you want to see bigger numbers. Bards are not top end DPS. Bards are hybrid classes. If you want bigger numbers DON'T PLAY A HYBRID CLASS. It's that simple. You don't twist and contort the job to be the same as the others while completely ignoring the added damage and utility the class brings to a party as a whole. A Bards value does not lie in it's DPS, and it won't ever lie in it's DPS. That's not what the class is. The absolutely failure to understand that is why this suggestion is dead on arrival.

[Snugglebutt]

You are severely underestimating what good bards can do. It would absolutely make them overpowered to have the buffs and no song penalty. This entire suggestion appears to ignore any game balance because you want to see bigger numbers. Bards are not top end DPS. Bards are hybrid classes. If you want bigger numbers DON'T PLAY A HYBRID CLASS. It's that simple.

I disagree, there may be outliers or some who do extremely good damage but those few do not make up a vast majority of people who play bards. Those that are within that category generally have to work harder to make up for the lackluster gear stats SE throw our way and many of the skill stats compared to some other DPS classes whom have better DPS gear quality and better designed skill stats. I do not believe it will make bards overpowered at all, not for a single second do I believe they would be if remove the %damage debuff on the songs while playing those songs. The party dynamic will not change, it will not increase or decrease the amount of spots bards fill, it will simply increase slightly the DPS output of most bards while not being overpowered at all.

[SinisterIsBack]

That ~15% bonus damage casters deal during foe's requiem is theirs? But what happens when you stop singing? That ~15% extra damage they were doing suddenly disappears. Sing again and it comes back. You are causing that damage to happen. It is your damage. You performing an action causes that damage to appear.

So me playing paeon means I get a portion of a melee's damage also then?
Playing ballad means Im gaining some healing too?

Buffing someone DOES NOT = The Damage gain is suddenly yours. Does it get added to my parse? newp, sure doesn't. That is quite possibly the dumbest concept I have ever heard.

A buff is a buff is a buff -- the concepts of buffs have not changed, nor will they ever.

Asking to remove the penalty from paeon and ballad also DOES NOT = bards OP -- we arent playing paeon and ballad 24/7

[Kuwagami]

And please guys, cut the crap. This game is about the party's dps, not your own pee-wee. Bards add :

=> ~15% more damage to casters for free with Foe
=> a TP regen which allows ALL of your melee jobs not to be utter garbage past the 4/5 mins mark
=> a MP regen which allows healers to continue their job in dire situations (namely, learning) or prevents SMNs from sucking hard by being MP dried

the 2 regens coming at the cost of a dps loss for the bard, while increasing the overall dps of the party. melees dried ? your DPS loses way more than your beloved 20%. Healers dried ? Congrats, it's a wipe, you lost everything.

Stop thinking about yourself, start thinking about your team

[Snugglebutt]

-snip-

Stop thinking about yourself, start thinking about your team

I find it ironic that many of the people against removal of this debuff care less about 'the team' when nerfs, debuffs and buffs of their own class comes up in discussions and threads...but all of sudden becomes about 'the team' when it's another persons class being discussed. Here is a fun fact for you, the 'team' is not negatively impacted by the removal of the debuff. It increases the DPS (slightly) from the bard while still benefiting the team by way of boosting their DPS and survivability, so if you care about the team as much as you claim then you would be for the removal and not for keeping it.

[File2ish]

...as is that our 135 weapon is about as powerful to any other DPS's 115 weapon they could get from Shiva.

I'd argue it's reasonable. Why? Bards can attack while avoiding anything uninterrupted (aside from forced downtime in fights). If the weapon damage from the bows were raised to the same as the rest of the weapons of the same level bard would be completely overpowered. The damage output would be far too good in comparison to other jobs for the current mechanics of the game. Nobody would take any other role into a duty for the sole reason that Bards would be able to DPS just as well as a melee AND be able to output damage while avoiding pretty much everything. I recall early in XIV2.0 when to farm say Garuda EX people would only stack bards because it made everything easier. Now imagine if Bards had the same damage as a Monk.

Also taking into consideration that the other DPS roles need to work harder to maintain a higher DPS and bard is essentially our "support" job, it makes sense that bards have a lower overall DPS output. Monk loses stacks or needs to run away from the enemy to get out of AoE? DPS takes a hit. BLM/SMN need to get out of AoEs? DPS takes a hit because of casting times. DRG/NIN dies? Heh... Sorry, healer humor.

[Ehayte]

Couple things:

1 | You all are mostly arguing about nothing. If you are smart and see a dumb person that is arguing about something that just doesn't pertain to the subject at hand: ignore them.
2 | You carry your BRD's DPS through DPS checks, just like your BRD carries you through 5 minute melee engagements and AE-Healing heavy portions of the fight. If you don't have to carry your BRD through a DPS check, then you are seeing 4 Bennus day 1, killing every mob on time in T13 the first time you see it, and never seeing an enrage. Its not about making the class OP, its about making the party OP.

In addition, let's take a quick examination of what a BRD can do without interrupting their DPS much if any (certainly losing less DPS than ANY other job).

T1 - Spawn and kite slimes
T7 - Kite renaulds
T8 - Tether/Brainjack
T9 - Kite/Tank Golem
T10 - Pick up add and Kite for PLD
T11 - Spread for Seed of River
T12 - Bluefire/Redfire
T13 - Earthshakers

WOW THAT'S A LOT OF GOOD STUFF WITHOUT LOSING MUCH DPS.

[CYoung187]

I find it ironic that many of the people against removal of this debuff care less about 'the team' when nerfs, debuffs and buffs of their own class comes up in discussions and threads...but all of sudden becomes about 'the team' when it's another persons class being discussed. Here is a fun fact for you, the 'team' is not negatively impacted by the removal of the debuff. It increases the DPS (slightly) from the bard while still benefiting the team by way of boosting their DPS and survivability, so if you care about the team as much as you claim then you would be for the removal and not for keeping it.

Guess we should buff every class then, go team!

[Elazu]

Bards are fine.

[SinisterIsBack]

snip

T1 - Spawn and kite slimes -- Kite them and watch them explode and wipe the raid? Yea, thats not happening. YOu have to stay within a certain range or they explode.

T7 - Kite renaulds ok

T8 - Tether/Brainjack Tether sure, brainjack ... any class can do this without losing much dps

T9 - Kite/Tank Golem 1. Kiting these golems is a horrible idea 2. ANY job can tank them without losing much dps.

T10 - Pick up add and Kite for PLD So you have a bard pick up a daughter or son and kite it? wierd either way I'd argue that because of how fast they run, you still get hit, not to mention their frontal and back cones. Where are you getting this stuff from?

T11 - Spread for Seed of River Any class can do this, its called rotating around the boss -- Yes even with 3 melee Flank/Rear/Flank

T12 - Bluefire/Redfire -- At the cost of a pretty big damage debuff.

T13 - Earthshakers -- ok