I think its time BRD get some loving

[Altena]

If they were to do what the OP suggested:

- Decrease movement speed slightly when using an on-GCD skill. The other reason they are pretty much a "must have" is because they are the best job to handle a lot of DD mechanics - due to their freedom of movement with no penalty.
- Implement the attack penalty/bonus that varies with range (What is currently in PvP). This would not only make BRD more interesting to play (because currently it's extremely boring and many people consider it undesirable to play), but it would also increase the skill ceiling to the job, which in my honest opinion, is extremely low in comparison to other jobs in the game.

I am going to get a lot of flame for this but w/e.

[Valoiz]

Really? suports asking for more dps instead of more suport skills? LOL

I DONT want more DPS as brd, i want a HOT song and may a song to reduce P - Def in parties with no casters.....

Hoping for that in the expansion...

If u can do the same dmg a melee does without dodge/combo/positioning why we will need/want Melees at all? to lb? lol

PPL need to STOP comparing an Archer-Suport / SMN-Dots with melees or Nukers....

[Tiggy]

Your basing your principle of balance on what a few are capable of in your comment and not what the majority are doing. A game should be balanced for the majority and not the few or the outliers. So to me you care less about balance than I do because your coming at it in a flawed way.

Way to ignore the entire paragraph where I covered how and why they nerfed ninja. They demonstrably do exactly what you just said they shouldn't do. So you need to reconcile this with yourself because at this point your opinion on it doesn't matter. Square clearly balances around the top end and that's just the way it is.

Every single patch with new gear or debuffs for old content invalidates that as a viable excuse because content is constantly and rapidly becoming easier with patches and new content.

No, because there is always new content to replace the older content, and it's still very relevant there. You seem to completely ignore the top end raiding aspects of this balance discussion. Constantly thinking that things are easy or players that are weak are what should be catered to regardless of how that would decimate the end game play. Another solid reason why this is Dead on Arrival.

[Parodine]

So me playing paeon means I get a portion of a melee's damage also then?
Playing ballad means Im gaining some healing too?

Buffing someone DOES NOT = The Damage gain is suddenly yours. Does it get added to my parse? newp, sure doesn't. That is quite possibly the dumbest concept I have ever heard.

A buff is a buff is a buff -- the concepts of buffs have not changed, nor will they ever.

Asking to remove the penalty from paeon and ballad also DOES NOT = bards OP -- we arent playing paeon and ballad 24/7

This distinction is so dumb. No, it is not your LITERAL damage, lord. But it is damage that wouldn't have happened had you not used a support ability. The same for Trick Attack. Sure, not your literal dmg, but the vul down that you bring is technically increasing everyone's damage, which wouldn't have happened without you. But if you're glued to your parser I'm sure that's not particularly impressive.

[Bluejay]

Really? suports asking for more dps instead of more suport skills? LOL

Last time I checked there was no 'Support' queue in the Duty finder. If they want to make BRDs a support then give them more songs to avoid the brain dead game play and create a Support queue. As it is 'Support' isn't needed in about 90% of the content so BRDs are just lousy DPS in everything except raids.

If Square gives BRD's more songs to make it actually require some kind of decision making and adds a Support Queue to the game, they can increase the damage penalty to 30% and I would still be happy.

[Dwill]

To buff a debuff means boosting/increasing the 'negative' consequences of that debuff if want to get deeper into the semantics and logic of it. To boost the the positive without increasing the negative such buffs would have to be applied to a baseline and not a debuff. To buff is to increase or to enhance, when applied to a negative it increases that negativity. Which was my earlier point which I was trying to make.

You're arguing semantics while not even understanding your own logic in the process (Buffing a debuff means making the debuff worse...what?). Any change to your class that makes it perform better is a buff and that's not a matter of opinion, that's a fact.

I won't even bother with the rest of your post concerning balance as they show a total lack of basic understanding of how actual balance happen in MMO.

[SinisterIsBack]

This distinction is so dumb. No, it is not your LITERAL damage, lord. But it is damage that wouldn't have happened had you not used a support ability. The same for Trick Attack. Sure, not your literal dmg, but the vul down that you bring is technically increasing everyone's damage, which wouldn't have happened without you. But if you're glued to your parser I'm sure that's not particularly impressive.

That extra damage others produce because of Foe Requiem can be considered your damage.

That ~15% bonus damage casters deal during foe's requiem is theirs? But what happens when you stop singing? That ~15% extra damage they were doing suddenly disappears. Sing again and it comes back. You are causing that damage to happen. It is your damage. You performing an action causes that damage to appear.

Tell that to these people. Again, read what was being replied too first. I know what foe's is, and does. It's just a buff and to bring it into an equation that it should count towards a bards dps when talking about removing a minor penalty is dumb.

[Valoiz]

Last time I checked there was no 'Support' queue in the Duty finder. If they want to make BRDs a support then give them more songs to avoid the brain dead game play and create a Support queue. As it is 'Support' isn't needed in about 90% of the content so BRDs are just lousy DPS in everything except raids.

Do u have EVER see a "suport queue" on any MMO? what are u talking about?

Are u really expecting to do the same DPS a melee does with an archer?

Again:

If u can do the same dmg a melee does without dodge/combo/positioning why we will need/want Melees at all? to lb?

Normal content its NOT a dps race, and u CAN pass any DPS check (like Amdapor Hm) with 2 brd with no problem at all... so... why u need more dps? Brd its a suport in raids, pretty much escencial.

Also brd have great AOE to big pulls u will never do well with 2 mnk for example.

[RiceisNice]

Not sure if it's mentoned, but the songs also buff the bard. MP song increases their regen, allowing ballad having the longest uptime (as well as making mana nearly a nonissue for healers who otherwise need to be smart about it). Paeon increases bard's TP regen as well, essentially making it infinite. Having no damage penalty with one of these is absolutely absurd.

On the other end, the support aspect should not be the only reason a bard should get a raid spot above any other class (outside of being a ranged dps to fit composition). Theoretically, if bard dps is really subpar, would bringing another class in their place that brings much higher numbers more-or-less bring the same amount of usage to the table?

Example would be compared to the upcoming machinist class (where I very much want to play a class that has more emphasis on dealing physical ranged damage), would there be a point to bringing another ranged physical dps when
>Bard already fills that role + more
>Machinist doesn't provide any of those utilities
>You have no spell dps or melee dps if you were to take both a bard and machinist

[Doctor-]

This thread got derailed really quick all I was asking was for indirect buff by decreasing the penalty of the dmg penalty when they sing, With this change they will still pump 400+ @ end game content still way below the top dps of any other dps...