The Keeper of the Lake Elder primal

[ReplicaX]

That's actually incorrect

Lol, my bad. Goes to show no matter how many times you watch something, something can be missed.

[treuhavik]

@ Alberel: We don't know if it is Midgardsormr in the Heavensward logo, it could just as well be Nidhogg

From 10/31/14;

And, finally, yes, Silvertear is from where the modern primals came. The Allagan used the lake to trap the weaker primals (trapping primals was kind of their thing). What's interesting here is that Midgarsormr was/is the "Keeper of the Lake", it's protector. This means it's likely that the Allagan assigned him this task using some variation of their dragon mind-controll devices.

For reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzC510DpbU0

The way I see it, the allagan seal was literally broken when the Argius reached a certain depth and that the 'lesser' primals were really released back into the stream of aether in that moment. Now, on them being as old as the elder primals, it's a non-issue. Bahamut and Odin could still be eons older than the primals seen in that scene.

[Sakasa]

Well the only real mention of the crash in terms of aether was the initial refences from 1.0 quests that explained the explosion unstablized the aether which caused all the aether crystals that aren't corrupted around Mor Dhona. So the primals we saw might have been an story idea that was dropped with the switch of team leads or just an explaination of a huge aetheral rip that released alot of energy and was shaped into the images of aetherial beings to represent how much energy was released.

I have a feeling that the dungeon will have more to do with Ishigardians and the Ascian plot for them then with the aetherial vein of the lake and Midgardsormr. But unlike all the other dungeons displayed that video is completely devoid of enemies, now if that is intentional as an intro video or an attempt to remove clues we wouldn't be able to say yet.

<edit>

Had a thought maybe that was the original idea for primal specific aetherites. Before Yoshi P took over. Around the 1.0 world before the adjustments there were oddly specific things around the world for a world intentionally devoid of most land marks. There are a few videos but this was the only that shows it specifically in my small search.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHhQAIKd9SA

So maybe what we are seeing was the initial idea to primals being bound to specific crystals and that explosion scattered them across the world. When they introduced the primal fights alot of these areas were no longer able to be accessed as I tried to get back to the aetherial crystal cave prison thing after garuda was released to find invisible walls and caves that do to no where.

[Anonymoose]

Now, on them being as old as the elder primals, it's a non-issue. Bahamut and Odin could still be eons older than the primals seen in that scene.

I think the "The Seal contained the primals, and they were trapped by the Allag" theory is plausible, but to dismiss the entire question of why would Ifrit not then be an Elder Primal is overreaching (imho). I'm not discounting the possibility that Ifrit was sealed by the Allag, but I find more evidence than not that he wasn't around in the Third Astral Era. Every contemporary primal has lacked the elder description, and every primal of the Allag age has been called such. The absence of the black swan required for the theory to function is more than a "non-issue" (again, imho).

Odin and Behemoth are easily overlooked only if Odin was already the Dark Divinity (explaining why he was sealed) and the Meracydian brood is older than the Third Astral Era - nothing gamebreakingly contradictory, there, I suppose. But Belias is harder to make work with the theory. The summoner storyline tells us that Belias was summoned and defeated (at least once, probably multiple times) in the Third Astral Era by an Allag summoner. The memories of the summoner's victory, which enabled him to form and control Belias-egi, were encoded in his soulstone. This implies that, unlike Odin and Bahamut, Belias didn't have to be sealed away, and he wasn't that powerful. By extension, this likely makes Belias to his age what Ifrit is to ours - a contemporary primal. But, in our age, the Ascian refers to Belias' essence as that of "a slumbering elder primal." If the theory is true, it implies that Belias was ages older than Ifrit, but Ifrit was sealed whereas Belias was defeated by a summoner and his memory eventually lost to the ages.

It seems much more likely to me that Belias was a newer primal then and an older primal now, which means Ifrit would be more likely to be a newer primal now. I can't really find a way to make the IF BELIAS X, THEN IFRIT Y situation work in a way that's backed up by the story so far. It's like putting a puzzle piece in the middle when all you've completed are the borders. It fits, but will it still fit when we have more pieces there? Is it possible that Belias was older than Ifrit at the time? Sure. Is it possible that Belias was sealed later and forgotten? Also, sure. Again, I think the theory is still on the table, but we can't just write off the Belias v. Ifrit problem without adequate explanation beyond a guess, can we?

I tried to get back to the aetherial crystal cave prison thing after garuda was released to find invisible walls and caves that do to no where.

I don't know if it was blocked for a short time (or perhaps you later took a wrong turn on the way? It was a confusing location to reach, to be sure), but the crystal cave was open all the way to the day the servers closed and was a flag-trigger for two Seventh Umbral Era quests. The only thing that changed about it was that the three-sided shape in the middle of the largest crystal was removed and the symbol of Thaliak was carved into it. It was first seen in Like Father Like Son, where Cid referred to it as The Crypt of Xandes I and said that it was at Silvertear Falls. This implies that the crystal formation was actually the spire of Syrcus Tower, albeit in an entirely different location than it is in 2.0. The cave was later seen in Living on a Prayer. It's the location of Louisoix, Urianger, and the player's final interaction before the Battle of Cartenau, and Louisoix states that from that location he can "feel the gods stirring."

Now that I think about it, if the crystal cave was the 1.0 location of Syrcus Tower's spire, then it suddenly makes sense why one language referred to Crystal Tower's location as west and the other as east - perhaps one referred to the current crystal caves, and the other referred to the eventual location in 2.0...

Here's a list of the things in that video:

• 00:00 The Crypt of Xandes I (1.0 Only - See Above)
• 00:34 Dark Aetherial Node (1.0 Only; Dunno what it was. Weak gate? Void entrance?)
• 01:08 Gwyr-Aen (Still Exists)
• 01:31 Ishgardian Vigil (Still Exists; Design and size have been retconned)
• 01:59 The Falcon's Nest (Inaccessible in Coerthas Western Highlands)
• 03:03 Amberscale Rock (Still Exists; guarded by powerful elementals in 1.0 storyline; associated with dragon legend; looks like a dragon)
• 03:16 The Guardian Tree (Still Exists; heart of the Twelveswood)
• 04:00 White Tree (Unknown; Likely just an early Hedgetree)
• 04:13 Burnt Tree (1.0 Only; Burned by Khrimm in the storyline)
• 04:25 Lifemend Stump (Still Exists; Associated with Moogle Lore)
• 04:40 Gelmorran Ruins (Destroyed; remnants visible in ARR. Rocks missing, look similar to Amberscale, shaped kinda like tonberries)
• 05:08 Thal's Respite (Still Exists)
• 05:48 The Red Labyrinth (Still Exists in name, doesn't glow like that)

[Recaldy]

I'm expecting either those Giants outside CT or some old Magiteks. Once we beat the dungeon Midgard shows up and says "3.0 Bitches" then flies off to Ishgard.

:b

[treuhavik]

I can't speak much on Belias as I haven't done anything SCH or SMN related. I still think NPCs use the term "elder" far too loosely for how we interpret it. When I call something elder it's been around for-fking-ever, it's big, bad and all kinds of powerful. Bahamut is the 'eldest' by that definition, followed by Odin and Behemoth. Everything else (that I know of) is a 'modern' primal as far as I'm concerned. Again, idk where Belias would fit in that specrum.

It could also be that 'elders' get that title from their popularity. The elemental primals are only known by their respective tribes and a few handfulls of the spoken, whereas elders are known by pretty much everyone who's ever heard the term "primal" and probably worshiped by far, far more in comparison to the others. So, maybe Belias is considered elder because he was widely known to the spoken races in the 3rd Astral Era (at least the whole of the Nymian civilization?).

[WellFooled]

Every contemporary primal has lacked the elder description, and every primal of the Allag age has been called such.

Is it possible that only Primals that have been inactive for a long enough period are called Elder? For example if Ifrit and Bahamut had existed side by side in the past, but Bahamut stopped being summoned people would come to refer to him as an Elder Primal, but Ifrit wouldn't because he never stopped regularly being summoned.

I've heard the expression Old Gods to refer to the gods worshipped by the Greek or Norse, but gods that are currently worshipped aren't called old even if some of them have existed for as long as Greek deities. The difference being I think is that few if any people worship the old gods anymore. So the title isn't because of age, but rather a lack of people who believe in them.

I think something similar might be happening in Eorzea.

[Mirron]

Kind of unrelated, but is Behemoth actually a Primal? I never got that impression, I just thought he was supposed to be a big monster that wandered around. Likely missed some mention of it if he is, but seems odd with King Behemoth and such then. Only bringing it up since I saw on this latest page a couple mentions of Behemoth as a Primal.

[Nalien]

I always figured the whole Elder Primal thing was quite literal; Bahamut and Odin were summoned and sealed during the Allag times, and have maintained since. Bahamut certainly, Odin is a bit of an oddity but I don't think we actually defeat him in the FATE, maybe in the upcoming Trial. Meanwhile, Ifrit et al are continually being defeated and resummoned. Their physical "lives" end almost as soon as they begin, while Odin and Bahamut have "lived" for eras. How does Belias fit into that? Well, he maintained physical form for a significant amount of time, thus becoming "Elder", before finally being put down and forgotten. Alternatively Belias, like Odin and Bahamut, maintains a physical form to this day and when he was described as a "slumbering elder primal", he literally is slumbering in some corner of Hydaelyn.

Kinda like a Primal leveling system;

Bahamut, summoned and undefeated for X years, leveled up to Elder Primal.
Ifrit, summoned and defeated in 5 minutes, still a Primal.

It could explain why Primals are so intent on being summoned and maintaining physical form. The longer they're out, the stronger they get.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Is it possible that only Primals that have been inactive for a long enough period are called Elder? For example if Ifrit and Bahamut had existed side by side in the past, but Bahamut stopped being summoned people would come to refer to him as an Elder Primal, but Ifrit wouldn't because he never stopped regularly being summoned.

If that were really the case, I would have expected Koji Fox aka Fernehalwes to explain it that way. But he said quite clearly that elder primals are "elders" simply because they've been around for that much longer. It's really that simple.

As for whether it was primals or a surge of aether that burst forth from Silvertears Lake after the destruction of the Agrius, I'd go with 'Moose's theory that it wasn't the primals per se that were locked away. I prefer the idea that the surge of prayers in the immediate aftermath of the battle was so strong that the newly released aether were able to coalesce into the primals almost instantly.

It's a bit like the Big Bang: We went from utter nothingness into an infinity of everything in just one second.